Sane is a relative term. Especially when it comes to serial killers. And
the courts.
But I do agree, I don't think Dahmer met the M'Naughten standard.
----- Original Message -----
From: a <alilokiloki@aol.com>
To: <serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 12:26 AM
Subject: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: Dahmer sane(?) & other issues I have with
profiler Robert K Ressler
> Yes, he was ruled as sane. My beef with Ressler was because, even
> with all his experience, he felt Dahmer was insane.
>
> --- In serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com, "trinity66_03"
> <trinity66_03@y...> wrote:
> > Very interesting, I agree as well. Wasn't Dahlmer ruled as sane?
> I
> > thought that was why he was in a prison instead of some mental
> > facility...I could be wrong, that seems to happen more often than
> > I'd like to admit :)
> > Kim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > - In serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Stych"
> <unitedcats@e...>
> > wrote:
> > > Interesting post, I would have to concur. I've always
> > > thought that if a perprtrator made efforts to cover
> > > up the crime, he/she MUST be sane no matter how
> > > crazed and senseless the crime seems.
> > >
> > > jmo
> > > Doug
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com, "a" <alilokiloki@a...>
> > wrote:
> > > > The FBI's Behavioral Science unit was created/opened, post
> Hoover
> > > > FBI, (he thought profiling was like witchcraft or voodoo) by
> John
> > > > Douglas and Robert K Ressler. They went around with case files
> of
> > > > apprehended serial killers/rapists and interviewed them. They
> > > > collected the data, found similarities, and used psychologial
> > tricks
> > > > to get into the minds of many well known serial offenders. One
> of
> > > > the things they found, for instance, is by knowing the basal
> > > > personality type of the offender, they could force info out of
> > them.
> > > > Take David Berkowitz, for instance. He is not a killer that
> was
> > very
> > > > forceful. He made sneak attacks that didnt require any type of
> > > > contact with his victims. From this information, and other
> info
> > in
> > > > the case file, they were able to tell that they would be
> control
> > him
> > > > easily since he wasnt one to be controlling or dominant in any
> > way.
> > > > When they interviewed him they asked him about the dog, the
> > infamous
> > > > Sam. He told them the same old story "the dog told me to do
> it"
> > and
> > > > so they responded by saying "cut the crap, David, it had
> nothing
> > to
> > > > do with the dog did it?" He looked a little sheepish and then
> > > > admitted that they were correct and the dog story was just a
> > story
> > > > he made up. (*I don't remember which book this was from but I
> do
> > > > know it was one by John Douglas, one of his first and the only
> > one
> > > > that goes into detail about the origins of the Behavioral
> Science
> > > > Unit.) When they interviewed Manson, they found that he took
> > great
> > > > pains to take control. He even sat on the top of his chair
> (due
> > to
> > > > his small stature) as to seem larger than the two agents. Due
> to
> > his
> > > > personality they allowed him to "feel big" and in control in
> > order
> > > > to talk to him with more ease.
> > > >
> > > > Douglas and Ressler took their findings/notes, case file, and
> > their
> > > > many years of experience in the field and took them to the
> powers
> > > > that be. This is how the Behavioral Science Unit was started.
> > > >
> > > > My issue with Ressler is that he, in many of his books, has
> > tauted
> > > > himself as starting the Unit. He never mentions Douglas and
> often
> > > > comes across as smug. Douglas, on the other hand has always
> > > > mentioned Ressler.
> > > >
> > > > My second, and more important, issue with Douglas is that he
> was
> > the
> > > > profiler called forth to profile and testify as to
> > sanity/insanity
> > > > in the Dahmer case. He testified that Dahmer was insane. I'm
> > sorry,
> > > > but pretty much anyone with knowledge of the insanity plea
> > > > requirements knows that it means that the defendant didnt know
> > the
> > > > difference between right and wrong. Dahmer obviously knew the
> > > > difference. #1) He lied to the police when they returned the
> > naked
> > > > and dazed 14-year-old Konerak Sinthasomphone to him. He told
> them
> > > > they were lovers and had had a quarrel and that the boy was
> > drunk.
> > > > Actually, the boy was dazed because, not only had he been
> drugged
> > > > but also had a small hole drilled in his head and Dahmer had
> > poured
> > > > acid into it in an attempt to make an automated zombie sex
> slave.
> > > > #2) He had many, many locks on his door to keep victims from
> > getting
> > > > out and also had a small surveillance camera set up.
> > > > #3) He lied about the stench emanating from his apartment when
> > his
> > > > neighbors complained to him. He said it was dead fish from his
> > > > aquarium.
> > > > #4) When he murdered his first victim, Stephen Hicks, he had
> put
> > the
> > > > dismembered body into trash bags and put them in his car. He
> > drove
> > > > to get rid of them elsewhere. Along the way, he was pulled
> over
> > by a
> > > > police officer. Dahmer told him he was getting rid of some
> > garbage.
> > > > The officer told him to get home and so he did just as he was
> > asked
> > > > and so, instead, he took the remains to the woods behind his
> > house
> > > > and strewed them around the forest.
> > > >
> > > > All of this points to a carefully calculating criminal who can
> > quite
> > > > easily think on his feet to appear normal and avoid detection.
> > > > Therefore, it appalled me when I heard that in
> Ressler's "expert"
> > > > opinion not to mention all of his valuable experience, he
> thought
> > > > Dahmer to be insane. Yes, Dahmer was an EXTREMELY sick
> individual
> > > > and by no means normal but insane he was certainly not. For
> > another
> > > > thing, he was an organized killer and no organized killer can
> be
> > > > insane. Richard Trenton Chase was insane and a disorganized
> > killer.
> > > > Dahmer was in full control of his situation.
> > > >
> > > > Just a thought and a rant I've been waiting to air in a forum
> > such
> > > > as this one.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Help save the life of a child. Support St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/ons1pC/lbOLAA/E2hLAA/1zOplB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/serial_crimes2/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
serial_crimes2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
