Stevie Nicks

Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: BTK Killer Sentenced to Life in Prison

2005-08-26T13:32:00.000-07:00

she's mentioned many times that she goes to therapy as she wants to be a better mom for her daughter. I view this as a desire to improve ergo change.

Diana <dianasemail@gmail.com> wrote:

I dont recall her saying that she wanted to change.

On 8/26/05, Kathy <vamp@tbcnet.com> wrote:
Quoting Kimba D'Michi <kimbasmeow@yahoo.com>:

> While reaction may be a part of her posts, I will disagree a bit here.
>
> She knows she's fucked up.  She's holding no punches.  Telling her she's
> fucked up is pointless.  She acknowledges and accepts this as fact already.
> Why be redundant?
>
> She's also processing and I want to ask the list to not just tell her she's
> fucked up.  She knows that. Sounding board her be intrigued by the chance to
> glimpse something you will never likely truly understand.  See this as an
> opportunity to experience something rather than a chance to jab
>
> Don't be bambi, be another hunting walking beside her trying to sort this out
> so to speak.

Exactly.  That is exactly why I was trying to stress to her that I didn't have a
problem with her disagreeing, but had a problem with her not realizing just how
hostile she was sounding in her posts.  If I didn't think there was more to her
than her being "fucked up," I wouldn't have bothered to do so.

And, for the record, I think most of us are "fucked up, in one way or the other,
so I'm not about to pass judgment on someone who actually acknowledges it and
wants to change it.

Kathy
Click below for my latest thoughts
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"Society wants to believe it can identify evil people, or bad or harmful people, but it's not practical. There are no stereotypes. The thing is that some people are just psychologically less ready for failure than others." Theodore Robert Bundy**********"See you later crocagator" Zack Lestat********

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: Female Killers

2005-08-26T12:53:00.000-07:00

Diana,

You might feel differently when faced with the actual dismemberment... unless you already have experience? ;-)

Diana

On 8/25/05, Diana Daemonique <creepy_freaky@arcor.de> wrote:

It's just such a pity that the few female killers that are known (the
great exception: ELIZABTH BATHORY!) did it in so boring ways, mostly
using poison or the like. To me personally, the guts and gore are
essential in satisfying the killer instinct, otherwise you needn't even
start at all, in my opinion. It's the disembowelmant and dismemberment
that gives the thrill... but well, tastes are different, of course.

Diana

--- In serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com, "Demon" <dem0n@b...> wrote:
> Believe me, female killers ARE the smart ones! Female killers tend to
use their brain more, are more manupilative, more trusting and better
planners and we don't let thoughts of sex run our life. Men only have
one brain and that's in the head of their cock, trust me on that one.
>
> ~ Demon Disciple ~

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] To Kathy and Dianna

2005-08-26T12:46:00.000-07:00

LOL..Catholic doesn't offend me..at all.
I did run into the coolest Priest today
at my ear Dr..he was there as a patient...
he is sort of a Mel Gibson Catholic..only
says Mass in Latin etc...
Intriqued me! ...but did the Hindu Temple...
I'm just a curious lady:)
Dianna ^i^

Kathy Giles wrote:

On Aug 25, 2005, at 10:51 PM, Dianna Kemp Ewald wrote:

I'll just be honest with you.
I have been through abuse
of all kinds in my childhood and
I do set boundaries in my little
world.

This was *exactly* my point. Lots of us have gone through various forms of abuse. You had yours, I had mine (that only ended not too long ago), etc., etc. The point I was trying to get at was that we don't project it in such a hateful manner and, I personally feel that demon is capable of the same but doesn't realize how much she's projecting it at all of us.

Demonic is one place I don't go..
hope that doesn't offend you..

Hey, Catholic is one place I don't go and I don't care if that offends you. ;)

as for calling me a name..I have
no problem with it..if it makes
you feel good, go for it.

Well, you're a better person than me. I don't like to see disrespect like that. We get enough of it from way too many people in this world, as it is.

I just won't discuss demons ane evil
as if it were as common as the good
in our world.

Oh yeah, I should have mentioned that you're the eternal optimist. ;) Personally, pessimism is much more my kind of thing. It just makes for better humor. ;)~

Demon wrote:I really have no desire to turn this into an arguement, but let me tell you that if someone is going to try and offend me, then I sure as hell am not just going to sit back and pretend it didn't happen.

Dianna wrote "Who are you trying to convince with these ramblings?". Now I consider that offensive, considering I took the time to express an oppinion about something that I was hoping to get some feedback on. I was not rambling by any means. Luckily enough, I did get some feedback and that's all I wanted.
I personally believe Dianna has some kind of hate session against me considering that she seems to reply in a negative manner to everything I post.
She has obviously been hurt in the past by someone similar to myself (with homicidal desires) and clearly considers me a threat to the safe little world she has built for herself. Be assured, I do have a strong desire to kill, but this is an online discussion group and therefore I can't do much damage in here without getting myself banned from the group altogether, so you have nothing to worry about.
Dianna, I said it before and I'll say it again... if you want to add my posts to your block senders list feel free to, but be aware that I am not going to stop posting simply because my oppinions are considered offensive to you.
I am an aggressive person and my aggression tends to be expressed in my posts and replies at times. I am not always aware how aggressive or offensive I am being unless I am purposefully trying to offend someone. Calling Dianna a goddamn bitch is the only time I have actually purposefully been offensive in this group, so all in all, I really don't think I am doing too bad.

<unknown.gif> Demon

<unknown.gif>

-------Original Message-------

From: Kathy Giles

Date: 08/26/05 11:53:06

To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: BTK Killer Sentenced to Life in Prison

On Aug 25, 2005, at 7:29 PM, Demon wrote:

> What happened in your life to turn you into such a goddamn bitch??

Okay, I am BEYOND busy at the moment, but I am damn well taking the
time out for this.  Dianna and I often disagree, but she is one of the
nicest people I know and I am very offended to see her referred to this
way.  Demon, you come off harsh as hell, but I would never call you a
"goddamn bitch."  Ease up and don't get so hostile when people are not
in agreement with what you say.  It's not cool and I don't think anyone
here likes seeing other members insulted.

By the way, you want us all to understand what you went through.  Did
you ever consider that the rest of us might have gone through equally
awful things that could have made us into "goddamned bitches?"

> <unknown.gif> Demon<unknown.gif>
>
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Dianna Kemp Ewald
> Date: 08/26/05 09:23:33
> To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: BTK Killer Sentenced to Life in Prison
>
> Who are you trying to convince with these ramblings?
> Dianna ^i^
>
> Demon wrote:
> I am fully aware of what a psychopath is (also known as sociopath).
> This of course does not mean that it is not humanly possible for one
> to change, with some form of cognitive therapy or to change due to
> outside influences such as meeting someone in whom the killer has
> developed a relationship with. You cannot place the human mind in a
> jar and label it unchangeable. It cannot be done.
> The human mind is one that is continually shaped and moulded by a
> combination of environmental factors and personal experiences. To
> presume that a killer cannot change is to presume that he was indeed
> born to kill and I refuse to believe that.
> While watching my mother get beat up almost everyday I became a sadist
> at the age of 6 (tried to burn my little brother on a hot iron) but
> did not become a potential killer till the age of 16. That's when the
> murder fantasies began. So, what is the difference between myself and
> a serial killer who probably didn't start killing till he or she was
> that age also or older? Are you trying to tell me that there is no
> hope for me either to ever stop wanting to kill? Or maybe like the
> serial killer, you would also deem me a psychopathic monster based on
> the fact that I too get pleasure from these homocidal desires? After
> all, I have traits from several different personality disorders...
> Antisocial, Schizotypal and Schizoid being the main three. And yes, I
> have been diagnosed by a professional.
> I have come close to killing people and when I say close, I mean very
> close to the point where I have actually strangled someone. But unlike
> the serial killer, I have much restraint and did not kill him. I have
> held a gun in my hand loaded with a bullet that I had written the
> victims name on with intent to kill, but did not pull the trigger. It
> was not guilt that stopped me. It was fear of capture. That is the
> only thing that stopped me. I knew I could come close and it gave me a
> thrill to do so, but the possibility of spending life in prison was
> and is not appealing by any means.
> So tell me, if fear of losing my freedom is the only thing stopping
> me, then am I much different from a Serial Killer? Yet I can feel love
> towards my child and care towards the rest of my family... brother,
> sister, mother but no love or thought at all towards my victim other
> treating him/her as mere cattle. I believe it is those emotions of
> love and caring towards family that actually make me human. So, then
> does the love that a killer may feel towards his own family. How then
> can that make him a monster?
> Evil is in fact a human concept derived by a society that has placed
> boundaries on what is deemed acceptable and unacceptable behaviour.
> Who has the true right to judge anothers behaviour? Who has the right
> to call another evil when they are not without sin themselves? Answer:
> No-one!
>
> ~ Demon Disciple ~
>
> P.S... I have noticed that a couple of my other replies have not shown
> up in the group yet. Are they being reviewed by the moderator or have
> you chosen to delete them for some unknown reason?

Kathy

Kathy
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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: Dahmer sane(?) & other issues I have with profiler Robert K Ressler

2005-08-26T12:27:00.000-07:00

Sane is a relative term. Especially when it comes to serial killers. And
the courts.
But I do agree, I don't think Dahmer met the M'Naughten standard.

----- Original Message -----
From: a <alilokiloki@aol.com>
To: <serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 12:26 AM
Subject: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: Dahmer sane(?) & other issues I have with
profiler Robert K Ressler

> Yes, he was ruled as sane. My beef with Ressler was because, even
> with all his experience, he felt Dahmer was insane.
>
> --- In serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com, "trinity66_03"
> <trinity66_03@y...> wrote:
> > Very interesting, I agree as well. Wasn't Dahlmer ruled as sane?
> I
> > thought that was why he was in a prison instead of some mental
> > facility...I could be wrong, that seems to happen more often than
> > I'd like to admit :)
> > Kim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > - In serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Stych"
> <unitedcats@e...>
> > wrote:
> > > Interesting post, I would have to concur. I've always
> > > thought that if a perprtrator made efforts to cover
> > > up the crime, he/she MUST be sane no matter how
> > > crazed and senseless the crime seems.
> > >
> > > jmo
> > > Doug
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com, "a" <alilokiloki@a...>
> > wrote:
> > > > The FBI's Behavioral Science unit was created/opened, post
> Hoover
> > > > FBI, (he thought profiling was like witchcraft or voodoo) by
> John
> > > > Douglas and Robert K Ressler. They went around with case files
> of
> > > > apprehended serial killers/rapists and interviewed them. They
> > > > collected the data, found similarities, and used psychologial
> > tricks
> > > > to get into the minds of many well known serial offenders. One
> of
> > > > the things they found, for instance, is by knowing the basal
> > > > personality type of the offender, they could force info out of
> > them.
> > > > Take David Berkowitz, for instance. He is not a killer that
> was
> > very
> > > > forceful. He made sneak attacks that didnt require any type of
> > > > contact with his victims. From this information, and other
> info
> > in
> > > > the case file, they were able to tell that they would be
> control
> > him
> > > > easily since he wasnt one to be controlling or dominant in any
> > way.
> > > > When they interviewed him they asked him about the dog, the
> > infamous
> > > > Sam. He told them the same old story "the dog told me to do
> it"
> > and
> > > > so they responded by saying "cut the crap, David, it had
> nothing
> > to
> > > > do with the dog did it?" He looked a little sheepish and then
> > > > admitted that they were correct and the dog story was just a
> > story
> > > > he made up. (*I don't remember which book this was from but I
> do
> > > > know it was one by John Douglas, one of his first and the only
> > one
> > > > that goes into detail about the origins of the Behavioral
> Science
> > > > Unit.) When they interviewed Manson, they found that he took
> > great
> > > > pains to take control. He even sat on the top of his chair
> (due
> > to
> > > > his small stature) as to seem larger than the two agents. Due
> to
> > his
> > > > personality they allowed him to "feel big" and in control in
> > order
> > > > to talk to him with more ease.
> > > >
> > > > Douglas and Ressler took their findings/notes, case file, and
> > their
> > > > many years of experience in the field and took them to the
> powers
> > > > that be. This is how the Behavioral Science Unit was started.
> > > >
> > > > My issue with Ressler is that he, in many of his books, has
> > tauted
> > > > himself as starting the Unit. He never mentions Douglas and
> often
> > > > comes across as smug. Douglas, on the other hand has always
> > > > mentioned Ressler.
> > > >
> > > > My second, and more important, issue with Douglas is that he
> was
> > the
> > > > profiler called forth to profile and testify as to
> > sanity/insanity
> > > > in the Dahmer case. He testified that Dahmer was insane. I'm
> > sorry,
> > > > but pretty much anyone with knowledge of the insanity plea
> > > > requirements knows that it means that the defendant didnt know
> > the
> > > > difference between right and wrong. Dahmer obviously knew the
> > > > difference. #1) He lied to the police when they returned the
> > naked
> > > > and dazed 14-year-old Konerak Sinthasomphone to him. He told
> them
> > > > they were lovers and had had a quarrel and that the boy was
> > drunk.
> > > > Actually, the boy was dazed because, not only had he been
> drugged
> > > > but also had a small hole drilled in his head and Dahmer had
> > poured
> > > > acid into it in an attempt to make an automated zombie sex
> slave.
> > > > #2) He had many, many locks on his door to keep victims from
> > getting
> > > > out and also had a small surveillance camera set up.
> > > > #3) He lied about the stench emanating from his apartment when
> > his
> > > > neighbors complained to him. He said it was dead fish from his
> > > > aquarium.
> > > > #4) When he murdered his first victim, Stephen Hicks, he had
> put
> > the
> > > > dismembered body into trash bags and put them in his car. He
> > drove
> > > > to get rid of them elsewhere. Along the way, he was pulled
> over
> > by a
> > > > police officer. Dahmer told him he was getting rid of some
> > garbage.
> > > > The officer told him to get home and so he did just as he was
> > asked
> > > > and so, instead, he took the remains to the woods behind his
> > house
> > > > and strewed them around the forest.
> > > >
> > > > All of this points to a carefully calculating criminal who can
> > quite
> > > > easily think on his feet to appear normal and avoid detection.
> > > > Therefore, it appalled me when I heard that in
> Ressler's "expert"
> > > > opinion not to mention all of his valuable experience, he
> thought
> > > > Dahmer to be insane. Yes, Dahmer was an EXTREMELY sick
> individual
> > > > and by no means normal but insane he was certainly not. For
> > another
> > > > thing, he was an organized killer and no organized killer can
> be
> > > > insane. Richard Trenton Chase was insane and a disorganized
> > killer.
> > > > Dahmer was in full control of his situation.
> > > >
> > > > Just a thought and a rant I've been waiting to air in a forum
> > such
> > > > as this one.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] a creepy new member

2005-08-26T12:13:00.000-07:00

i've been reading some of the posts here lately, and i feel the need
to reply to this particular poster. you say you admirer serial
killers. in particular "your only love" jeffery dahmer. may i ask
you a question. WHY? would you still "admire" these scumbags if one
of them took the life of someone you love. do you have children? if
you do then would you still "love" them if they took your
son's/daughter's life? these people, like rapists and child
molesters are the bottom of the social barrel.

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Diana Daemonique
> To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 3:08 PM
> Subject: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] a creepy new member
>
>
> Hi all,
> my name is Diana and I just joined here, being a great admirer
of
> serial killers in general, and in particular of my only love
Jeffrey
> Dahmer. In general I admire their courage to act out their dark
desires
> at the risk of a so unspeakably grave price that most of them
> eventually have to pay, unfortunately.
> Myself I'm certainly an extremely eccentric but not very
secretive
> person of also very conspicuous appearance (female bodybuilder,
mostly
> mistaken for male crossdresser), my only way of acting out my
own
> desires is my art and it is free for everyone to see/read.
> For the most part, however, I think I'm a pretty amiable
monster... :-)
> Looking forward to interesting discussions,
> dark regards,
>
> Diana

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Fwd ] Fw: Fwd: Fw: Awesome Shark Photo(bc)

2005-08-26T11:42:00.000-07:00

Hey I resemble that remark!lol..

Cindy

-------Original Message-------

From: Demon

Date: 08/26/05 09:27:59

To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Fwd ] Fw: Fwd: Fw: Awesome Shark Photo(bc)

LOL, yeah... you definately don't want to get wet by that shark, lol.

Demon

http://www.myspace.com/xborn2kill

-------Original Message-------

From: Kimba D'Michi

Date: 08/27/05 02:13:07

To: hlf; serial crimes; shanda

Subject: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Fwd ] Fw: Fwd: Fw: Awesome Shark Photo(bc)

THIS IS AWESOME--

1st look and see the shark under the water.

Keep your cursor out of the picture until you see the shark

Then move your mouse cursor onto the picture, but stand back, you might get wet (it's like it's 3D).

CLICK ON: Worlds Most Dangerous Creature

For up to date serial killer news send a blank email to serial_crimes2-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

test

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: BTK Killer Sentenced to Life in Prison

2005-08-26T11:36:00.001-07:00

I dont recall her saying that she wanted to change.

On 8/26/05, Kathy <vamp@tbcnet.com> wrote:

Quoting Kimba D'Michi <kimbasmeow@yahoo.com>:

> While reaction may be a part of her posts, I will disagree a bit here.
>
> She knows she's fucked up.  She's holding no punches.  Telling her she's
> fucked up is pointless.  She acknowledges and accepts this as fact already.
> Why be redundant?
>
> She's also processing and I want to ask the list to not just tell her she's
> fucked up.  She knows that. Sounding board her be intrigued by the chance to
> glimpse something you will never likely truly understand.  See this as an
> opportunity to experience something rather than a chance to jab
>
> Don't be bambi, be another hunting walking beside her trying to sort this out
> so to speak.

Exactly.  That is exactly why I was trying to stress to her that I didn't have a
problem with her disagreeing, but had a problem with her not realizing just how
hostile she was sounding in her posts.  If I didn't think there was more to her
than her being "fucked up," I wouldn't have bothered to do so.

And, for the record, I think most of us are "fucked up, in one way or the other,
so I'm not about to pass judgment on someone who actually acknowledges it and
wants to change it.

Kathy
Click below for my latest thoughts
on tv and film!
www.midnightmoviehouse.com
vamp@tbcnet.com

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Human Emotions

2005-08-26T11:36:00.000-07:00

You go girls!lol..

Cindy

-------Original Message-------

From: Kathy

Date: 08/26/05 10:07:02

To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Human Emotions

Quoting Demon <dem0n@bigpond.net.au>: > I would personally like to say fuck you! Sorry for the swearing guys, but > this guy needs his head rammed back up his ass and I would personally like > to be the one do it! If you've got a problem with what we discuss in this > group as intelligent women who know exactly what's going on, then you know > where the Leave Group button is... so, I'd suggest you either shut up or put > up! > Demon > http://www.myspace.com/xborn2kill This one, I'll give ya. ;) And, Carl, click delete if you don't want to read it. The only reason it was in here is that it began with a post on serial murder, another member took offense and I tried to mediate. Things happen, for christs sake. > -------Original Message------- > > From: carl phillips > Date: 08/27/05 01:23:43 > To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Human Emotions > > women eh?but lets not forget they are "just" women with women wants & women > needs.typical women tryimg hard to seperate themselves from each other & > trying hard to make themselves appear different to other women.pretending to > have some kind of grasp of knowledge on whats going on. > why mental behaviour?there is nothing there of interest.why not get confused > over a car or something? > lets open another group concerning womens issues where women can babble on > about nothing safe in the knowledge that nobodys really that interested & so > allow this group to continue with the subject of serial killers please. Kathy Click below for my latest thoughts on tv and film! www.midnightmoviehouse.com vamp@tbcnet.com ------------------------------------------------- TBC Net, Inc. Webmail http://www.tbc.net

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] To Michelle

2005-08-26T11:23:00.000-07:00

To me, manipulation means 'playing' or 'toying' with someone for my own personal amusement. I use manipulation as a way to control and dominate others and I happen to be very good at it. I also like to intimidate as it gives me a certain amount of pleasure and is another way of gaining power and control over my 'victims'. If someone can be easily intimidated or manipulated, then I consider them weak.

Fear is something else altogether. Fear excites me! I have been in situations where I have seen fear on the faces of those I am controlling and it excites me tremendously! Trust me, you can smell fear!!

Feeling fear is not a weakness. It is a natural reaction and a defence mechanism. I do not consider those who fear me as weak, but they are weak if I am able to take control of them and it only proves I am stronger!

Demon

http://www.myspace.com/xborn2kill

-------Original Message-------

From: Diana

Date: 08/27/05 03:34:12

To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] To Michelle

I really dont see how bringing a knife to a doctor's office could be construed as manipulation unless you somehow convinced her that you would kill her unless she gave you a prescription or something. Manipulate simply means to control (others or oneself) or influence skillfully, usually to one's advantage.

You keep talking about people being weak. The doctor was weak because you were able to scare her? I think that if Radar showed up in your bedroom with a knife you would be a little intimidated. Would you consider this a weekness??

Diana

On 8/26/05, Demon <dem0n@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

Here in Australia child welfare is called DOCS (Department of Community Services) and the reason she did not inform DOCS is because she was not afraid of me. I would manipulate her and make her nervous, but I never threatened her at any stage or give her the impression I would hurt my child. She did make me aware that DOCS would have to be informed if it was suspected that I was hurting my child, but I made her aware that I would never hurt my child. Fact is, I could manipulate her as much as I like because the manipulation itself had nothing to do with my child and therefore, could not be deemed as harming her.

I once told the psychiatrist that I fantasise about killing her and I even snuck my knife in to a session once. But I never threatened her with it, although she was under the impression that that was my intention without me actually saying so. I did want to make her nervous, but I was not stupid enough to actually verbally or physically threaten her with it. I was just playing with her, toying with her. I found it amusing, she didn't.

She was weak and could be easily manipulated, but I also believe she wasn't stupid. She knew at times when I was playing games with her, but she didn't know how to get the 'upper hand' so to speak. That was a fault of hers.

In any case, I never gave her any impression that I would or could hurt my child and therefore, no real reason to call DOCS. Anyway, my daughter was seeing the school counsellor at the time and she would have known if there was anything to be concerned about. Obviously there wasn't and still isn't, so in all honesty, I really don't know why you think something is not adding up here...??

Demon

http://www.myspace.com/xborn2kill

I also wanted to comment on Demon. If your psychiatrist was so afraid of you, why did she not turn you in to DCFS or something for fear of your child being in danger. I'm sorry, but something is not adding up here. Michelle

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] To Michelle

2005-08-26T11:05:00.000-07:00

Do you think Rader would have been afraid if I had been the one holding the knife at his throat? Sure I'd be intimidated if he walked into my room holding a knife but only out of self-preservation and only if I felt I couldn't control the situation. You can bet your ass if I were the one holding the knife he'd also be intimidated. Serial killer or not, self-preservation is a pretty damn strong instinct. If he wasn't afraid, he'd probably be amused thinking that he could get the upper hand. See how amused he'd still be while I'm slitting his throat!

I have played victim to a killer once already (well, potential killer considering I was to be his first victim) and yet I am the one who got the upper hand. I was terrified at the time, but I felt damn good after I kicked the shit out of him!!

Demon

http://www.myspace.com/xborn2kill

-------Original Message-------

From: Diana

Date: 08/27/05 03:34:12

To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] To Michelle

Diana

On 8/26/05, Demon <dem0n@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

Demon

http://www.myspace.com/xborn2kill

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Re: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: BTK Killer Sentenced to Life in Prison

2005-08-26T10:56:00.000-07:00

>>>If someone killed my son I would feel urges stalk, hunt, and harm them. These must be instincts. in SK's they must have gone amok.>>>

Yes, but that instinct is in retribution for a wrong done to you. Serial Killers tend to use this 'instinct' for personal pleasure and gratification.

Michelle

> If someone killed my son I would feel urges stalk, hunt, and harm them. These must be instincts. in SK's they must have gone amok.
>
> Michelle <nightgoddess@alltel.net> wrote:Yes Kimba, I was removing the element of instinctual human defense, etc... I do not consider stalking, torturing and mutilating a human instinct though.
>
> I also wanted to comment on Demon. If your psychiatrist was so afraid of you, why did she not turn you in to DCFS or something for fear of your child being in danger. I'm sorry, but something is not adding up here.
>
> Michelle
>
>
>
> > I'll debate this in that while defense, preservation, etc etc are human instincts are are jelousy, fear, and anger when you kill out of them you may be acting on instinct. yes.
> >
> > BUT...
> >
> > Evil enters in how you kill them and what you do to them before, during, and after.
> >
> > Michelle <nightgoddess@alltel.net> wrote:
> > >>>Therefore, when a human kills they are merely giving in to their natural instincts but for different reasons.
> > I'm not trying to justify murder, but I am trying to justify why killers should not be considered evil.>>>
> >
> > Hooey. There are alot things that humans have instincts to do, but withhold because we are HUMAN. You ARE justifying murder. And if someone is so out of control that they cannot help themselves but to kill, then they should be removed from the human race. JMO.
> >
> > Michelle
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> >
> > Visit your group "serial_crimes2" on the web.
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > serial_crimes2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Society wants to believe it can identify evil people, or bad or harmful people, but it's not practical. There are no stereotypes. The thing is that some people are just psychologically less ready for failure than others." Theodore Robert Bundy**********"See you later crocagator" Zack Lestat********
> >
> > For up to date serial killer news send a blank email to serial_crimes2-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > test'; " type=text/css>
> >
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
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> ---------------------------------
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>
>
> Visit your group "serial_crimes2" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> serial_crimes2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> "Society wants to believe it can identify evil people, or bad or harmful people, but it's not practical. There are no stereotypes. The thing is that some people are just psychologically less ready for failure than others." Theodore Robert Bundy**********"See you later crocagator" Zack Lestat********
>
> For up to date serial killer news send a blank email to serial_crimes2-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> test'; " type=text/css>
>

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] joe1orbit...?

2005-08-26T10:38:00.000-07:00

Quoting Kimba D'Michi <kimbasmeow@yahoo.com>:

> Two people wrote the theory of evolution at the same time.
>
> Darwin published a week or so early so he's the one whose name we remember.
> These were two men in different parts of the world who had never met. They
> seperatly, at the same time, came up with the theory of evoluion.
>
> Two men also designed the first IC (integrated circuit) at the exact same
> time, in two totally seperate environments, and had no knowledge of each
> other or their respective works.
>
> I'm sure there are many more examples that I'm missing.

Oh, I know, Kimba. As I said to Demon, it was certain phrases that she was
using that led to me to ask, not accuse, her about joe1orbit.

> Demon <dem0n@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> 1) First of all, I don't need to chill because I wasn't angry anyway and I
> never said you made up that user name.
> 2) I am fully aware you never said 'you are the only one who thinks your way'
> and I don't recall having suggested anywhere that you did. Mentioning that
> there are other people who have a similar mind to myself was simply a
> statement. I was not suggesting that you yourself think any differently on
> the matter.
> 3) I really don't know how someone's expressions can be EXACTLY the same as
> mine when I am not that person. Of course, I know I am not the only one who
> views humans as nothing more than cattle to be slaughtered. That is a
> reference that I am certain has been used by others in the past. Not because
> I have previously heard the term being used, but simply because it is a
> relevant statement from someone with a hate for a humanity. It is reference
> to how I feel.
> I am aware that people can have similar thought patterns, but you are
> inferring that joe1orbit and I are one and the same simply based on something
> that is clearly a coincidence.
> What else can I say...? All I can honestly tell you is he is not me, nor I
> him. I could even prove it, but considering how certain people view me in
> here, I really don't think it is worth my time.
> Here's hoping this 'non-relevant to the group' topic of discussion will
> finally be put to rest...
> Demon
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Kathy Giles
> Date: 08/24/05 12:04:52
> To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: BTK Killer Sentenced to Life in Prison
>
>
> On Aug 22, 2005, at 12:57 AM, Demon wrote:
>
> > Well, I can assure you I am NOT joe1orbit and besides, I sure as hell
> > wouldn't choose a lame ass user name like joe1orbit anyway. I also
> > know I am not the only person who thinks the way I do. Alot of people
> > have murder fantasies. Of course, there are only a few like myself who
> > have a real desire to kill, but they do exist.
>
>
> 1) Chill, already. I didn't make up the username.
> 2) I never said you were the only one who thinks your way.
> 3) I didn't ask about the identity because you have murder fantasies.
> Hell, I have had them for the past 2 weeks after the recent crap my
> landlord tried to pull. I asked because of expressions you've used
> that are EXACTLY the same. I said that in my post, by the way.
>
>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: Kathy Giles
> >> On Aug 21, 2005, at 7:05 AM, Demon wrote:
> >>
> >>> Who the hell is joe1orbit?
> >>
> >>
> >> Someone on another list who says the stuff you say word for word.
> >> Stuff about not having a soul because of others killing it, not
> >> caring about other humans, etc. You sound exactly the same. That's
> >> why I asked.
> >>
> >>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: Kathy Giles
> >>>> On Aug 20, 2005, at 8:15 AM, Demon wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> You're wrong about two things... one, I believe he can be cured
> >>>>> and two, I have no empathy for humans (except my daughter).
> >>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>>>
> >>>> Wait? Are you joe1orbit?
> >>>>
> >>>> Kathy
>
>
> Kathy

Kathy
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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] To Michelle

2005-08-26T10:37:00.000-07:00

Diana

On 8/26/05, Demon <dem0n@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

Here in Australia child welfare is called DOCS (Department of Community Services) and the reason she did not inform DOCS is because she was not afraid of me. I would manipulate her and make her nervous, but I never threatened her at any stage or give her the impression I would hurt my child. She did make me aware that DOCS would have to be informed if it was suspected that I was hurting my child, but I made her aware that I would never hurt my child. Fact is, I could manipulate her as much as I like because the manipulation itself had nothing to do with my child and therefore, could not be deemed as harming her.

I once told the psychiatrist that I fantasise about killing her and I even snuck my knife in to a session once. But I never threatened her with it, although she was under the impression that that was my intention without me actually saying so. I did want to make her nervous, but I was not stupid enough to actually verbally or physically threaten her with it. I was just playing with her, toying with her. I found it amusing, she didn't.

She was weak and could be easily manipulated, but I also believe she wasn't stupid. She knew at times when I was playing games with her, but she didn't know how to get the 'upper hand' so to speak. That was a fault of hers.

In any case, I never gave her any impression that I would or could hurt my child and therefore, no real reason to call DOCS. Anyway, my daughter was seeing the school counsellor at the time and she would have known if there was anything to be concerned about. Obviously there wasn't and still isn't, so in all honesty, I really don't know why you think something is not adding up here...??

Demon

http://www.myspace.com/xborn2kill

I also wanted to comment on Demon. If your psychiatrist was so afraid of you, why did she not turn you in to DCFS or something for fear of your child being in danger. I'm sorry, but something is not adding up here. Michelle

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Dahmer sane(?) & other issues I have with profiler Robert K Ressler

2005-08-26T10:31:00.000-07:00

Quoting Kimba D'Michi <kimbasmeow@yahoo.com>:

> It is a shame that he was murdered himself as he was cooperating with the
> powers to be to figure himself out, as you said he acknowledged he would
> continue to kill if released and he was curious himself as to why.

Not to mention that the whole reason he was in the general population, where he
got murdered, was because he refused the protective section they wanted to put
him in. He felt that he didn't deserve to be protected given what he'd done.
You *know* Bundy wouldn't have been like that.

> Hvnscyld <hvnscyld@cfl.rr.com> wrote: I agree with youI.I watched an
> interview with Dahmer.He said he was sorry for what he had done and that he
> knew it was wrong.He had turned to Christianity in prison.But what he said
> next was the proof that he was not legally crazy.He said that even though he
> didnt ever "want" to do this again and that he was sorry for what he did
> do,that they should never let him out of prison because the Need and Drive to
> do what he did was to strong and that even though he may try very hard to
> stop he couldnt say that he would.To keep whatever future victims there may
> be safe,he needed to stay where he was.
>
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: a
> Date: 08/24/05 06:58:04
> To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Dahmer sane(?) & other issues I have with profiler
> Robert K Ressler
>
>
> The FBI's Behavioral Science unit was created/opened, post Hoover
> FBI, (he thought profiling was like witchcraft or voodoo) by John
> Douglas and Robert K Ressler. They went around with case files of
> apprehended serial killers/rapists and interviewed them. They
> collected the data, found similarities, and used psychologial tricks
> to get into the minds of many well known serial offenders. One of
> the things they found, for instance, is by knowing the basal
> personality type of the offender, they could force info out of them.
> Take David Berkowitz, for instance. He is not a killer that was very
> forceful. He made sneak attacks that didnt require any type of
> contact with his victims. From this information, and other info in
> the case file, they were able to tell that they would be control him
> easily since he wasnt one to be controlling or dominant in any way.
> When they interviewed him they asked him about the dog, the infamous
> Sam. He told them the same old story "the dog told me to do it" and
> so they responded by saying "cut the crap, David, it had nothing to
> do with the dog did it?" He looked a little sheepish and then
> admitted that they were correct and the dog story was just a story
> he made up. (*I don't remember which book this was from but I do
> know it was one by John Douglas, one of his first and the only one
> that goes into detail about the origins of the Behavioral Science
> Unit.) When they interviewed Manson, they found that he took great
> pains to take control. He even sat on the top of his chair (due to
> his small stature) as to seem larger than the two agents. Due to his
> personality they allowed him to "feel big" and in control in order
> to talk to him with more ease.
>
> Douglas and Ressler took their findings/notes, case file, and their
> many years of experience in the field and took them to the powers
> that be. This is how the Behavioral Science Unit was started.
>
> My issue with Ressler is that he, in many of his books, has tauted
> himself as starting the Unit. He never mentions Douglas and often
> comes across as smug. Douglas, on the other hand has always
> mentioned Ressler.
>
> My second, and more important, issue with Douglas is that he was the
> profiler called forth to profile and testify as to sanity/insanity
> in the Dahmer case. He testified that Dahmer was insane. I'm sorry,
> but pretty much anyone with knowledge of the insanity plea
> requirements knows that it means that the defendant didnt know the
> difference between right and wrong. Dahmer obviously knew the
> difference. #1) He lied to the police when they returned the naked
> and dazed 14-year-old Konerak Sinthasomphone to him. He told them
> they were lovers and had had a quarrel and that the boy was drunk.
> Actually, the boy was dazed because, not only had he been drugged
> but also had a small hole drilled in his head and Dahmer had poured
> acid into it in an attempt to make an automated zombie sex slave.
> #2) He had many, many locks on his door to keep victims from getting
> out and also had a small surveillance camera set up.
> #3) He lied about the stench emanating from his apartment when his
> neighbors complained to him. He said it was dead fish from his
> aquarium.
> #4) When he murdered his first victim, Stephen Hicks, he had put the
> dismembered body into trash bags and put them in his car. He drove
> to get rid of them elsewhere. Along the way, he was pulled over by a
> police officer. Dahmer told him he was getting rid of some garbage.
> The officer told him to get home and so he did just as he was asked
> and so, instead, he took the remains to the woods behind his house
> and strewed them around the forest.
>
> All of this points to a carefully calculating criminal who can quite
> easily think on his feet to appear normal and avoid detection.
> Therefore, it appalled me when I heard that in Ressler's "expert"
> opinion not to mention all of his valuable experience, he thought
> Dahmer to be insane. Yes, Dahmer was an EXTREMELY sick individual
> and by no means normal but insane he was certainly not. For another
> thing, he was an organized killer and no organized killer can be
> insane. Richard Trenton Chase was insane and a disorganized killer.
> Dahmer was in full control of his situation.
>
> Just a thought and a rant I've been waiting to air in a forum such
> as this one.

Kathy
Click below for my latest thoughts
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Re: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: BTK Killer Sentenced to Life in Prison

2005-08-26T09:40:00.000-07:00

If someone killed my son I would feel urges stalk, hunt, and harm them. These must be instincts. in SK's they must have gone amok.

Michelle <nightgoddess@alltel.net> wrote:

Yes Kimba, I was removing the element of instinctual human defense, etc... I do not consider stalking, torturing and mutilating a human instinct though. I also wanted to comment on Demon. If your psychiatrist was so afraid of you, why did she not turn you in to DCFS or something for fear of your child being in danger. I'm sorry, but something is not adding up here. Michelle > I'll debate this in that while defense, preservation, etc etc are human instincts are are jelousy, fear, and anger when you kill out of them you may be acting on instinct. yes. > > BUT... > > Evil enters in how you kill them and what you do to them before, during, and after. > > Michelle <nightgoddess@alltel.net> wrote: > >>>Therefore, when a human kills they are merely giving in to their natural instincts but for different reasons. > I'm not trying to justify murder, but I am trying to justify why killers should not be considered evil.>>> > > Hooey. There are alot things that humans have instincts to do, but withhold because we are HUMAN. You ARE justifying murder. And if someone is so out of control that they cannot help themselves but to kill, then they should be removed from the human race. JMO. > > Michelle > > > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "serial_crimes2" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > serial_crimes2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > "Society wants to believe it can identify evil people, or bad or harmful people, but it's not practical. There are no stereotypes. The thing is that some people are just psychologically less ready for failure than others." Theodore Robert Bundy**********"See you later crocagator" Zack Lestat******** > > For up to date serial killer news send a blank email to serial_crimes2-subscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > test'; " type=text/css> >

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Intro...

2005-08-26T09:39:00.000-07:00

I've read Anton LaVey's Satanic bible, it's part of my religious reading collection. It's an interesting book - I dont' prescribe to any religion, but he writes in a way that is logical and makes sense - this is his snare so to speak.....

hestermofet@speakeasy.net wrote:

So which kind of Satanist are you -- Church of Satan, Temple of Set or
your own brand?

Hester Mofet
On Aug 19, 2005, at 11:49 AM, Demon wrote:

> Yeah.... it's not mean't to be an attention grabber ok. I share that
> information with people so they don't have to ask. I get messaged by
> alot of people who ask stupid questions because they didn't read my
> profile first. It just saves a whole lot of time. I've got 86 people
> on my messenger list, so I really don't want to be fucking around with
> time-wasters.
> Â
> ~ Demon Disciple ~
> Â
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Dianna Kemp Ewald
>> To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 2:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Intro...
>>
>> With a name like that, you're sure to be
>> real popular...your hobby is not an
>> attention grabber either.
>> Good luck.
>>
>> Demon wrote:I am a new member to this group, so I thought I should
>> introduce myself.
>>> Â
>>> I am 32 year old female who is a sadist and Satanist with an
>>> interest in criminology and serial killers. I also have murder
>>> fantasies of which I have been having for 16 years. So, if that
>>> bothers you... too bad. I am not here to cause trouble. My interest
>>> lies primarily in studying murder cases. Why? To understand the
>>> workings of my own mind and because I find it fascinating to read
>>> about serial killers and their progression from murder to possible
>>> final capture. Kinda like watching a dog being taken for a walk,
>>> except that the walk involvesÂ violence and murder, so it's
>>> interesting to see who leads who in the end, lol.
>>> Â
>>> Anyway, now I've introduced myself you'll know who I am if I decide
>>> to reply to any posts in here.
>>> Â
>>> ~ Demon Disciple ~
>>> Â
>>> Â
>>> Â
>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>
>> âª Â Visit your group "serial_crimes2" on the web.
>> Â
>> âª Â To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> Â serial_crimes2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>> Â
>> âª Â Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>> Service.
>>
>>

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Intro...

2005-08-26T09:33:00.000-07:00

You don't believe in religion and yet you're saying that those of us who have a belief in Satan are rebelling against a religious upbringing. Well guess what, I never had a religious upbringing at all, so please, remind me again what exactly I am supposed to be rebelling against.

I do believe in god and the Devil, I just happen to put more faith in the Devil because as far as I am concerned, god has proven to be not only vain and sadistic (read the bible and you'll know what I mean) but also conveniently unavailable when he is needed the most.

I have had to live in fear as a child almost every day, watch my mother get beaten and abused, I have been molested, cheated on, stolen from, lied to, betrayed, abused, raped and almost murdered. Where was god then??

Maybe I am rebelling, but if I have to choose a path in life (as I believe I do), then it sure as hell won't be to god anytime soon!!

Demon

http://www.myspace.com/xborn2kill

-------Original Message-------

From: nancy m gibson

Date: 08/27/05 01:51:55

To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Intro...

Well I always say everyone to their own belief. Never having been a

Christian I have never had to believe in Satan good bad or in between.

I may be wrong but I think those who do are merely trying to rebel

against their religious up bringing. ---------------------Nan

I am a traditional Satanist. Laveyian Satanism or The Church of Satan is what I call, modern Satanism. I am traditonal

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] a creepy new member

2005-08-26T09:31:00.001-07:00

Were is your art located?

Diana Daemonique <creepy_freaky@arcor.de> wrote:

Hi all, my name is Diana and I just joined here, being a great admirer of serial killers in general, and in particular of my only love Jeffrey Dahmer. In general I admire their courage to act out their dark desires at the risk of a so unspeakably grave price that most of them eventually have to pay, unfortunately. Myself I'm certainly an extremely eccentric but not very secretive person of also very conspicuous appearance (female bodybuilder, mostly mistaken for male crossdresser), my only way of acting out my own desires is my art and it is free for everyone to see/read. For the most part, however, I think I'm a pretty amiable monster... :-) Looking forward to interesting discussions, dark regards, Diana

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Fwd ] Fw: Fwd: Fw: Awesome Shark Photo(bc)

2005-08-26T09:31:00.000-07:00

LOL, yeah... you definately don't want to get wet by that shark, lol.

Demon

http://www.myspace.com/xborn2kill

-------Original Message-------

From: Kimba D'Michi

Date: 08/27/05 02:13:07

To: hlf; serial crimes; shanda

Subject: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Fwd ] Fw: Fwd: Fw: Awesome Shark Photo(bc)

THIS IS AWESOME--

For up to date serial killer news send a blank email to serial_crimes2-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

test

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Fwd ] Fw: Fwd: Fw: Awesome Shark Photo(bc)

2005-08-26T09:20:00.001-07:00

-------Original Message-------

From: Kimba D'Michi

Date: 08/26/05 09:13:38

To: hlf; serial crimes; shanda

Subject: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Fwd ] Fw: Fwd: Fw: Awesome Shark Photo(bc)

THIS IS AWESOME--

"Society wants to believe it can i! dentify evil people, or bad or harmful people, but it's not practical. There are no stereotypes. The thing is that some people are just psychologically less ready for failure than others." Theodore Robert Bundy**********"See you later crocagator" Zack Lestat********

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test

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[SeRiAL CRiMeS] Fwd ] Fw: Fwd: Fw: Awesome Shark Photo(bc)

2005-08-26T09:20:00.000-07:00

THIS IS AWESOME--

1st look and see the shark under the water.

Keep your cursor out of the picture until you see the shark

Then move your mouse cursor onto the picture, but stand back, you might get wet (it's like it's 3D).

CLICK ON: Worlds Most Dangerous Creature

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[STEVIE] (stevie) ot-grisoft thanks

2005-08-26T09:15:00.000-07:00

i downloaded that trial version of grisoft. it said it found a virus and "healed" it. which im guessing means deleted. lol. i guess it was something called a trojan horse. where the heck do they get these names. lol. anyhow. thanks again newzchspy. :) ~barbra~

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[STEVIE] Re: Hmmm....double dipping...

2005-08-26T09:03:00.000-07:00

That's right, that's where the copy went. Did you and the sheep enjoy it?

From: enchanted@googlegroups.com [mailto:enchanted@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Newzchspy@aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 12:00 PM
To: enchanted@googlegroups.com
Subject: [STEVIE] Re: Hmmm....double dipping...

In a message dated 08/26/2005 9:21:08 A.M. Central Standard Time, cld14@psu.edu writes:

I got double dipped once......ahhh the pleasure.....ahh the pain...........I wonder where that video is.....

I just watched it last nite :P

[STEVIE] Re: Hmmm....double dipping...

2005-08-26T09:02:00.001-07:00

In a message dated 08/26/2005 10:33:27 A.M. Central Standard Time, danielx242@yahoo.com writes:

The only double messages I received were from Grace
and Glenn.

Glenn, are you pretending to be other people again??

No, I still have fooldrndfelllove and am still on the list; What was your term a few years back ?? Duplicitous???

[STEVIE] Re: ot - computer issues are making me insane

2005-08-26T09:02:00.000-07:00

hello, i use google's tool bar block and yahoo's tool bar block to
block pop-ups. semms to work.

corey

[STEVIE] Re: Hmmm....double dipping...

2005-08-26T09:01:00.000-07:00

In a message dated 08/26/2005 9:21:08 A.M. Central Standard Time, cld14@psu.edu writes:

I got double dipped once......ahhh the pleasure.....ahh the pain...........I wonder where that video is.....

I just watched it last nite :P

Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] a creepy new member

2005-08-26T08:58:00.000-07:00

You know, considering the posts lately, I dont think so. However, PLEASE keep the Dianas straight!! :O)

Diana

On 8/26/05, Tufrmone <tufrmone@yahoo.com> wrote:

I assume this is humor???

Tufr

Diana <dianasemail@gmail.com> wrote:

Welcome Diana! Nice name!! :O)

Diana

On 8/24/05, Diana Daemonique <creepy_freaky@arcor.de > wrote:
Hi all,
my name is Diana and I just joined here, being a great admirer of
serial killers in general, and in particular of my only love Jeffrey
Dahmer. In general I admire their courage to act out their dark desires
at the risk of a so unspeakably grave price that most of them
eventually have to pay, unfortunately.
Myself I'm certainly an extremely eccentric but not very secretive
person of also very conspicuous appearance (female bodybuilder, mostly
mistaken for male crossdresser), my only way of acting out my own
desires is my art and it is free for everyone to see/read.
For the most part, however, I think I'm a pretty amiable monster... :-)
Looking forward to interesting discussions,
dark regards,

Diana

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Intro...

2005-08-26T08:54:00.001-07:00

Well I always say everyone to their own belief. Never having been a

Christian I have never had to believe in Satan good bad or in between.

I may be wrong but I think those who do are merely trying to rebel

against their religious up bringing. ---------------------Nan

I am a traditional Satanist. Laveyian Satanism or The Church of Satan is what I call, modern Satanism. I am traditonal

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: Dahmer sane(?) & other issues I have with profiler Robert K Ressler

2005-08-26T08:54:00.000-07:00

That so called Unwholesome religion gave Dahmer the only real sense of peace he has ever known.Words from his own mouth.

Cindy

-------Original Message-------

From: Diana Daemonique

Date: 08/26/05 06:35:08

To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: Dahmer sane(?) & other issues I have with profiler Robert K Ressler

He did, yes, because he had the opinions of the majority influence him too much. Sadly, he didn't have anyone who was truly on his side. I think so often, if only... well, that's better kept between him and me I guess. Later he had them even talk him into that very unwholesome religion (trying to express myself in a very euphemistic way here). I can't blame him for anything, I know how hard it is when you have to stand absolutely alone, and it took me much time and strength to look through the whole play (society & its standards in general). Most people never even begin to question but just follow the herd... Diana --- In serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon B." <srbecker@i...> wrote: > Didn't Jeffery admit in open court that he was extremely sick? > I thought he did. If he did, then it was by his own standards. > > Sharon B. > > Yes, indeed he was although that's all on arbitrarity anyway. They > didn't want him to get any possible advantage by being sent to a > mental facility instead because the scum simply hated him. Sorry, I'm > extremely emotional when it comes to Jeffrey. And I must say I find > it very offensive that the person who posted the original message > calls him "EXTREMELY sick" - by whose standards?! And it makes me > wonder, if s/he already calls Jeffrey thus what they'd want to call > me then? > People set up categories on what's considered sane and what isn't, > but in the end it's just, as I said, arbitrarity. The categories > could as well be very different. But most people just go along with > what they're presented by others and accept it as a law of nature. > But it's refreshing to, albeit rarely, come across some that look a > bit deeper, so as to point out, for instance, that what > today's "civilized society" considers sick and outrageous was > sometimes a normal thing in other cultures - speaking of cannibalism, > human sacrifice, and related things. My mom is an ethnologist and > fortunately open minded to all of this so that I can talk to her > about it all. > > Diana

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[STEVIE] Re: Hmmm....double dipping...

2005-08-26T08:33:00.001-07:00

The only double messages I received were from Grace
and Glenn.

Glenn, are you pretending to be other people again??

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Karla Homolka lashes out at court; breaches parole

2005-08-26T08:33:00.000-07:00

Hmmmm looks like a wedding in the future,lol.

Cindy

-------Original Message-------

From: Diana

Date: 08/26/05 06:36:50

To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Karla Homolka lashes out at court; breaches parole

Well, well, well. Offering your services, Doug?? ;O)

Diana

On 8/25/05, Doug Stych <unitedcats@engineer.net> wrote:

--- In serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com, Diana <dianasemail@g ....> wrote:
> Probably not. At least she cant come to the US!!
>  Diana

Couldn't she marry an American? Maybe a diplomat, don't
spouses also get diplomatric immunity?

<eg>
Doug

>
>  On 8/25/05, trinity66_03 <trinity66_03@y...> wrote:
> >
> > So is she going to have to go back to jail now or what????
> > kim
> >
> >
> >
> > - In serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com, "Hvnscyld" <hvnscyld@c...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > This woman..if you can call her that..sickens me.What sickens me
> > worse is
> > > the fact that she is even allowed to see the light of day.I do
not
> > think for
> > > a second that she was a "forced" party to the serial rape an
> > murders that
> > > were committed.In my eye I see HER as the dominant one.Her
walking
> > the
> > > streets puts other young people,male and female,at risk.Just my
> > thoughts.
> > > Cindy
> > >
> > >
> > > -------Original Message-------
> > >
> > > From: cg
> > > Date: 08/23/05 21:26:19
> > > To: the_courtroom_mirror@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Karla Homolka lashes out at court;
> > breaches parole
> > >
> > > <from another group>
> > >
> > > KILLER KARLA HOMOLKA LASHES OUT AT COURT
> > >
> > > By Alan Cairns, Ottawa Sun
> > >
> > >
> > > LONGUEUIL, Que. - Karla Homolka blames police, the media,
politics
> > and
> > > crazy" Ontarians for her current plight. She is so angry at
> > Ontario and
> > > Canada that she voted for the Bloc Quebecois in the last federal
> > election.
> > > She even blames the Quebec judge who gave her 14 release
> > conditions --two of
> > > which she is now alleged to have broken.
> > >
> > > And Homolka said that Quebec prosecutors are now just
as "pissed"
> > at Ontario
> > > as she is. Homolka makes the allegations to her hardware store
> > boss Richer
> > > Lapointe in a series of rambling statements. Through all of her
> > comments,
> > > she never once stated any remorse for her role in the schoolgirl
> > murders.
> > > Homolka hopes that the same Ontario authorities she blames for
> > making her
> > > life so miserable will have no impact upon her! appeal of 14
post-
> > release
> > > conditions placed upon her by a Joliette court prior to her
July 5
> > release.
> > > If politics doesn't come into it, we'll win hands down," she
said.
> > Homolka
> > > said the upcoming appeal --scheduled for Sept. 22-- is now "much
> > bigger than
> > > just me and now involves lawyers for the Hells Angels."
> > >
> > > She said Ontario did not hold its side of the bargain to not
> > interfere in
> > > her prison and parole issues. The outlaw motorcycle gang is
> > worried that
> > > plea bargains involving gang members can be overturned, she
> > said. "This is
> > > not just about me ..: this is a huge issue for criminal law,"
she
> > said.
> > > Homolka said she feels confident about the appeal because Quebec
> > authorities
> > > now understand that Ontario made a mountain out of a molehill
when
> > they
> > > sought stringent release conditions a month before her release.
> > >
> > > She slammed Justice Jean Beaulieu, claiming he made up his mind
> > even prior
> > > to her lawyer Sylvie Bordelais' arguments in court. "She kicked
> > ass in court
> > > ... He said! `Okay, I'll be back in 10 minutes with my
> > decision ... the
> > > thing is, his decision (with pages of reasons) was already
> > made ... how the
> > > hell could he do it 10 minutes," she said. "Now, Ontario has
> > nothing to do
> > > with the appeal. Quebec will have to deal with the shit Ontario
> > created." In
> > > her allegations against Ontario authorities, Homolka asserted
that
> > if police
> > > had not "f----- up" the Scarborough Rapist probe into her ex-
> > husband Paul
> > > Bernardo, the pair's three victims would be alive. "They f-----
up
> > royally.
> > > If they had of done their job, nobody would have been killed -
> > nobody!" she
> > > said. "They didn't do their job. They had the DNA a year before
> > anybody was
> > > murdered - a year! They didn't test it! They had him. They f----
-
> > up! They
> > > f----- up big time!"
> > >
> > > Homolka said Ontario authorities were "very embarrassed" and
made
> > a deal
> > > with her. She said they also had no evidence against Bernardo in
> > the murders
> > > of Kristen French, 15, and Leslie Mahaffy,l4, and the drug rape
of
> > her
> > > young! est sister, Tammy, 15, until she gave them 400 hours of
> > statements in
> > > February 1993. "They came to talk to me, asked me all kinds of
> > questions
> > > about him ... because they finally tested the DNA - finally!"
> > Homolka said
> > > she withheld information at first, but then told police
everything
> > she knew.
> > > "I answered their questions. Some of them I answered truthfully,
> > some of
> > > them I didn't ... that was the first time and the last time I
> > wasn't
> > > completely honest with them ... after that, I said I have to
come
> > clean ...
> > > tell them everything. "To say that I didn't is outrageous ...
it's
> > not true.
> > > To say that I tried or withheld is a bunch of bullshit."
> > > Homolka did not mention one word to Lapointe of Jane Doe, the
> > teenage girl
> > > whose drug rape did not come to light until the Bernardo
> > videotapes were
> > > turned over to Police in September 1994.
> > >
> > > While failing to mention Jane Doe, Homolka asserted
> > that "everybody" who
> > > says the police discovered the depth of her crimes after the
> > videotapes w!
> > > ere found are full of bullshit." Homolka has said she could not
> > remember
> > > that she and Bernardo twice rendered Jane Doe unconscious in
1991
> > with the
> > > same knockout drugs that had caused Tammy's death only months
> > earlier.
> > > Homolka told Lapointe that inaccurate media reporting has led to
> > the public
> > > impression that she didn't get enough time for helping Bernardo
in
> > his sex
> > > crimes and murders. When Lapointe asked her how she voted in the
> > last
> > > election, Homolka said she voted for the Bloc "all the way ...
> > hell, yes!"
> > > She said she has no intention of staying in Canada and showed an
> > interest in
> > > moving. "If it had been up to me I would have gotten on a plane
> > and got the
> > > f--- out of here," she said.
> > >
> > > -----------------------------------------------
> > > HOMOLKA BREACHES PAROLE
> > >
> > > LONGUEUIL, Que. - (Ottawa Sun, by Alan Cairns) Convicted killer
> > Karla
> > > Homolka has broken several court-imposed release conditions
while
> > secretly
> > > working at a local hardware store, Sun Media has learned:
> > Hardware! store
> > > owner Richer Lapointe told Sun Media in an exclusive interview
> > that while
> > > working as his trainee sales clerk for the past three weeks,
> > Homolka tried
> > > to solicit his help to find temporary refuge far a convicted
> > killer's
> > > teenage son. Homolka asked Lapointe to be an "angel" for the
> > troubled son of
> > > her "best friend," Stivia Clermont, a Joliette women's prison
> > inmate who is
> > > serving a life sentence for first-degree murder and conspiracy
to
> > commit
> > > murder. A slate of conditions placed on Homolka under Section
810
> > of the
> > > Criminal Code of Canada by a Quebec judge prior to her July 5
> > release from
> > > prison include an order that she not associate with violent
> > criminals.
> > >
> > > Lapointe said Homolka knew involvement in the case would breach
her
> > > conditions and she asked him to help the kids through a middle
> > person so
> > > that her involvement in Clermont's case could not be traced. "I
> > can't have
> > > anything to do with it because I am not allowed to have contact
> > with her as
> > > she has a criminal record, violent," she said. "If anyone finds
> > out I'm
> > > f----- and I go back to jail for two years ... There can't be no
> > (sic)
> > > appearance that I'm doing something that I can't," Homolka told
> > Lapointe.
> > > Lapointe, who says he hired Homolka to either help rehabilitate
> > her or,
> > > alternatively, expose her lies, also alleges Homolka told him
that
> > each
> > > Sunday she cooks meals for her boyfriend, who she confided was a
> > French
> > > national who lives in Laval.
> > >
> > > Lapointe believes the man is none other than Jean-Paul Gerbet,
the
> > convicted
> > > killer with whom prison inmates have alleged Homolka fell head
> > over heels in
> > > love with after she met him in the Ste.-Anne-des-Plaines prison
> > library.
> > > Homolka's bizarre relationship with Gerbet was a sticky issue
for
> > Justice
> > > Jean Beaulieu, who made it obvious that the non-association
clause
> > related
> > > mainly to him.
> > >
> > > Beaulieu was clearly astonished that prison authorities allowed
> > Homolka to
> > > communicate with Gerbet, given her assertions that she was
forced,
> > coe! rced
> > > and beaten into being Bernardo's accomplice. Gerbet, 37, is
> > serving life in
> > > prison with no chance of parole until 2008 for the first-degree
> > murder of
> > > his estranged girlfriend Cathy Carretta in 1998. Gerbet is
housed
> > in minimum
> > > security Laval correctional institute. While Homolka did not
> > mention Gerbet
> > > by name, she told Lapointe that her boyfriend --who she said she
> > was perhaps
> > > in love with-- had "a problem with his ex-wife. Lapointe said
> > Homolka told
> > > him that the couple had "conflict" and she was giving him a hard
> > time.
> > >
> > > Lapointe also alleges that Homolka broke another court
condition --
> > that she
> > > not be left alone in a position of authority with anyone under
age
> > 16 - when
> > > he left her in the store alone with his two sons, aged 9 and
> > 14. "She didn't
> > > tell me that one of her conditions was not to be with kids,"
> > Lapointe said.
> > > Lapointe said he left her alone with his kids in the hardware
> > store for an
> > > hour. He said he locked the door behind him so she would not
have
> > to deal
> > > with customers. Lapointe was flabbergasted when Homolka
> > accidentally dropped
> > > a photograph of a naked woman, her legs spread and her face
> > obscured, on the
> > > floor while showing him her family photos. He said that
Homolka's
> > obvious
> > > interest in young women is frightening, given her crimes.
> > > Lapointe said he intends to take evidence of Homolka's apparent
> > condition
> > > breaches to prosecutors in Ontario and Quebec and is anxious to
> > speak with
> > > the lawyer for the families of slain school girls Kristen
French,
> > 15, Leslie
> > > Mahaffy, 14, and Jane Doe, 15.
> > >
> > > "I want the families of these girls to know that I am trying to
> > help them,"
> > > Lapointe said. Letters that Homolka wrote to her former lesbian
> > lover Lynda
> > > Veronneau reveal that Homolka lived in the same Joliette rooming
> > complex
> > > with Clermont and the two were close friends. "If you really
want
> > to help
> > > somebody I know somebody who is in desperate need of help,"
> > Homolka told
> > > Lapointe as the pair worked in the hardware store.
> > >
> > > "Her name ! is Stivia. She is my best friend in prison. And I
> > mean ... she
> > > is like my sister. Homolka said Clermont's kids have been put
into
> > the care
> > > of numerous released cons, but each time the women have had to
> > give up their
> > > guardianship because of various troubles. Homolka said she does
> > not know
> > > where the boy is now, or "how he is." She said she will not take
> > > responsibility for Clermont's older boy, but she would take care
> > of her
> > > younger son, who is aged 14. . But she said children's welfare
> > authorities
> > > would never allow it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "God, give us the serenity to accept what cannot be changed;
Give
> > us courage
> > > to change what should be changed; Give us the wisdom to
> > distinguish one from
> > > the other."
> > > and Take Everything in life-*One Day at a TIME!*
> > > test
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > > Visit your group "serial_crimes2" on the web.
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > serial_crimes2-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Human Emotions

2005-08-26T08:26:00.000-07:00

women eh?but lets not forget they are "just" women with women wants & women needs.typical women tryimg hard to seperate themselves from each other & trying hard to make themselves appear different to other women.pretending to have some kind of grasp of knowledge on whats going on.

why mental behaviour?there is nothing there of interest.why not get confused over a car or something?

lets open another group concerning womens issues where women can babble on about nothing safe in the knowledge that nobodys really that interested & so allow this group to continue with the subject of serial killers please.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tufrmone

To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 4:02 PM

Subject: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Human Emotions

Kimba D'Michi <kimbasmeow@yahoo.com> wrote:

I get this issue as I too have deep trust issues that have recently surfaced again in my own ability to have healthy male femal relations. I can't seem to trust a man enough to be the loopy female Demon so viamently hates, but I want to be. I dont' want to be dominated but i want to have that deep take care of each through everything trust with someone, I just dont' feel able to trust the other person to do it and hold off and close out. I can't be open and trust, I compartmentalize and am secrative. I harbor and I brude, but I smile and you often can't tell what is truly under the surface.

?????? Have you considered the possibility that this may be due to the fact that you have an ongoing obsession with serial maniacs and other types of major low life felons? Maybe if you moved away from this stuff, and surrounded yourself with more positive things, you might very well find it easier to trust average men, because you wouldn't be thinking that every Tom Dick and Harry you meet is a potential Jack the Ripper.

Tufr

We all have two faces.

Dianna Kemp Ewald <dkewald@fuse.net> wrote:

It sounds to me like you are bragging and enjoying
the audience. Perhaps commitment would be more
helpful...You aren't being a good mother to your
daughter when you retrict your love and fear she
will betray you....true love wouldn't consider betrayal.
Distancing yourself from your daughter can't be
healthy for her..
I don't know why you seem to be insulted that
someone thinks you may be BPD..antisocial
personality disorder isn't something to be
proud of.
I don't think what you describe are human
emotions....certainly not healthy ones.
Dianna ^i^

Demon wrote:

I know for a fact I have Antisocial Personality Disorder because I have been diagnosed with it by a professional. I have even been asked the triad questions. Like I said in a previous post, I have been told by a professional psychiatrist (the first one I was referred to for an initial assessment) that I have traits from several different personality disorders and one of those was definately Antisocial. Aside from that, I have completed an online Personality Disorder test that bases it's results on the Personality Disorders mentioned in the DSM IV and the majority of the disorders in my results happen to be over the 50 percentile mark, with Antisocial the highest at 68% if I can remember correctly. It may have even been higher than that. Where as BPD only came in around 52%. Now I don't put much faith in online tests, but I have a professional psychiatrist tell me the same thing the online test did, so I would say it's pretty damn accurate and therefore proves I have Antisocial Personality Disorder and not BPD as you suggested.

I really don't know why it is so hard to believe that rader could have human emotions. He raised a goddamn family for christs sake. He didn't kill them, did he? And I bet you anything he'd tell you he loves them if you asked him. So, what makes me more believeable than him? Is it because I have a desire to kill and have a tendency to view the majority of the human race as mere cattle, yet he's the one doing the killing (or has done the killing I should say)? It only proves that I have more restraint than he does and that's only out of fear of losing my child. If I didn't have a kid and didn't worry about the possibility of spending the rest of my life rotting away in a prison cell, you can bet your ass I would kill. In fact, I know alot of people would. Alot of people that are too damned afraid to even admit it.

As for feeling empathy, I may care about my family to a certain degree but my daughter is the only person in this world that I have any love for and even that is somewhat restricted out of fear that she will betray me when she gets older. I actually have a habit of distancing myself from her. I worry that if I get too close to her that I will lose her also, so although I love her... I am afraid to love her more than I have to as a mother. To be honest with you, I don't even know if what I feel for her is love. I am saying it is because I fear losing her and I would actually give my life for her, so I presume that is love. I don't know how one defines love, but for me that is how I define love.

I would not want to be compared to Dennis Rader because as far as I am concerned he's an idiot for confessing and it only goes to prove how weak he really is. But, I do believe he has human emotions and I will continue to believe that regardless of what anyone tells me. You can't possibly know everything he feels and make your presumptions on the mere fact that he killed some women. I mean, so fucking what! It doesn't mean he can't love his own family. Is a hunter who hunts for sport incapable of feeling love for his own pets simply because he kills other animals? How can you so easily disregard him as a monster simply because he 'hunted'. People hunt all the time, whether it's animal or human what difference does it make? It doesn't mean we lack other emotion simply because we have the ability to kill. It is easy to disregard the prey as just prey and still love your own pets. People do it all the time. Yet, you don't call a sport shooter who kills animals a psychopath do you?

Hell no, we give murderers their own label because we hate to think they could have any kind of human emotion like other 'normal' humans. It's bullshit. And you know what, I know for a fact most killers experience fear (of capture) or they wouldn't try to cover their tracks so damn well. Why would they bother to avoid detection if they had no emotion? Why would they care? The fact is, fear is a human emotion and therefore it only goes to prove that killers can experience human emotion.

~ Demon Disciple ~

----- Original Message -----

From: abgitatz@aol.com

To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 6:47 PM

Subject: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: BTK Killer Sentenced to Life in Prison<bye bye Dennis>

That's great, and you should believe that Radar can be cured all you want. All I am saying is that in truth no psychopath has ever been cured, and its not likely to happen in our life times. Well right there on your second point you proved me right. You do feel empathy for other humans. Namely you daughter, and to some degree you family. Radar can not feel those emotions at all, you are in fact capable. Listen I am not trying to lecture you about yourself, or try to "fix" you. The only person that could ever correct what is wrong with you is in fact you. What I was implying was that you are not like Radar because you are better then him, and are far more sane then him.

Evan

PS. Females tend to develop Borderline Personality Disorder, and not Anti Social Personality Disorder, if you think you share traits with Radar you might want to read up on it.

In a message dated 8/20/2005 7:44:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dem0n@bigpond.net.au writes:

You're wrong about two things... one, I believe he can be cured and two, I have no empathy for humans (except my daughter). I see empathy as a wasted emotion on people who do not deserve it. I see humans as cattle to be slaughtered. I have a real hate for the human race in general, you can be assured of that. And not only that, I am a very dominant sadist who also desires power and control, so you can also be assured that I am very good at treating humans as nothing more than property to be owned.

Do you seriously think I care about people. I care about my family to a certain degree and love my daughter, but I really don't give a shit about the rest of humanity and why should I? I have been treated like trash for the majority of my life. Why should I bother to care when it's easier to stop caring? It takes away the pain, but it takes away everything else also. That is a sacrifice I have to live with.

When I seek help (I'm seeing another shrink soon) it's for my daughters sake only. I'm doing it so I can be a better person for her and her alone. I don't give a fuck what humanity thinks of me, but I care alot what my little girl thinks of me and that's all that matters, nothing else.

~ Demon Disciple ~

"Society wants to believe it can identify evil people, or bad or harmful people, but it's not practical. There are no stereotypes. The thing is that some people are just psychologically less ready for failure than others." Theodore Robert Bundy**********"See you later crocagator" Zack Lestat********

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] a creepy new member

2005-08-26T08:19:00.000-07:00

I assume this is humor???

Tufr

Diana <dianasemail@gmail.com> wrote:

Welcome Diana! Nice name!! :O)

Diana

On 8/24/05, Diana Daemonique <creepy_freaky@arcor.de> wrote:
Hi all,
my name is Diana and I just joined here, being a great admirer of
serial killers in general, and in particular of my only love Jeffrey
Dahmer. In general I admire their courage to act out their dark desires
at the risk of a so unspeakably grave price that most of them
eventually have to pay, unfortunately.
Myself I'm certainly an extremely eccentric but not very secretive
person of also very conspicuous appearance (female bodybuilder, mostly
mistaken for male crossdresser), my only way of acting out my own
desires is my art and it is free for everyone to see/read.
For the most part, however, I think I'm a pretty amiable monster... :-)
Looking forward to interesting discussions,
dark regards,

Diana

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Questions Answered

2005-08-26T08:16:00.000-07:00

Demon,

Your story is very interesting (not to mention sad)! However, by having a male psychologist, arent you doing exactly what you dont want, allowing a man into your mind? A psychologist, in order to help, has to become one of the most important people in your life... you have to trust him/ her with your deepest most secret thoughts & feelings. Or, maybe this is why it doesn't seem to be working for you?

Also, are you saying that beating the shit out of women, small children and defenseless animals is a characteristic of strength? A working mother who has to contend with an abusive asshole just to make sure that her kids have food on the table and a roof over their heads is weak?

Why is it that two people raised in similar conditions develop completely different outlooks on life? My childhood was not all that pleasant - it may not have been as horrid as yours, but trust me, it was far from ideal. Yet, you and I seem to be complete opposite with the exception that we both are determined to make our children's lives better than ours.

My mother stayed in her relationship because she was terrified that by leaving it she would be taking what little bit her kids did have. She did not stay for herself, she could easily have taken care of herself, she did it for us. As warped and wrong as it may have been, it was not done for selfish reasons. If your mother was working, she possible selfish reasons could she have for staying in her abusive relationships?

Is it possible that your daughter feels your disapproval of her whining more than your disapproval of her abusive behavior? Even thou you say you dont show her your amusement, is it possible that she feels it in your actions anyways?

I am not trying to sound condescending (sp?). I hope this post doesnt come off sounding that way. I really am curious as to your reasonings. After living such a nightmare I would think that you would go on to achieve great success at whatever you chose to do with your life. You obviously have the determination and self control to do so. I am amazed, however, that you appear (to me anyways) to be following in the footsteps of the men you claim to hate.

Diana

On 8/21/05, Demon <dem0n@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

>>Why are you seeking out a male psychologist's counseling? You should be seeking out a female psychologist's counseling . . . one who understands the female mind and the affects of male dominance and abuse. And you should include sessions with you, your daughter, and the counselor.<<

Why? Partly because I see most women as weak. I am a woman myself, but I know I am strong. I don't allow men to rule my life. People say times have changed, but look around you and you will see it is still a male dominated world. Admittedly, there are alot of weak men in the world too. The submissive types, but even so men still tend to rule the roost. Men get more respect than women do in the workplace and even paid more for doing the same damn job. How is that fair? Why should women be treated second best? Some of these weak pathetic bitches even allow themselves to be treated no better than meat in a marketplace. If that's the way these women want to be treated than I am more than happy to oblige (after all, I am not just a sadist, but also a bi sadist). If they want to be treated that way, then they deserve to be treated that way.

As for the female psychiatrist I was seeing in the past, basically I saw her as a 'toy' to be played with. A woman I could manipulate and by making her nervous I proved she is no better than those other woman who are easily manipulated. Fact is, at the time I didn't have a choice in the matter when it came to gender. She was the only psychiatrist available at the time and still a trainee, so it didn't cost me anything to see her. I think she only had a year to go before she became a fully-fledged psychiatrist.

This time around I was advised by my daughters' child psychologist to seek help again. When I moved back up here to where I am living now, I had actually rang the psychiatrist I used to see (without any response for awhile) and then finally, she rang me back and I went back to see her only to discover that the new session times would not be suitable (I don't have a car and am forced to rely on public transport. So am therefore restricted with time). I was also under the impression that she was reluctant to see me again anyway. Her, initially not returning several of my calls, gave that away. The only reason she finally returned my call is because I spoke to one of the psychologists at Mental Health (instead of the receptionist) and he passed the message onto her personally. I told him she had not returned several of my calls.

So anyway, getting back on track... my daughter's psychologist advised I seek professional help again and asked me if I prefered to see a male or female psychologist. I chose male because I have more confidence that he won't be as weak with me as the female psychiatrist was. I am not saying men are mentally stronger than women because I don't believe that for one moment. But I have no doubt I will try to manipulate him like I did her because for me it is a power thing. Besides, I enjoy doing it.

>>As for your mother, she was an enabler and she was weak. But, bear in mind of the time period. She was raised in a society that believed the man ruled the house and women didn't have many choices as a single mother. Any man was better than no man in her world. Not that it excuses your childhood situation, but that's how things were then. It's easy to look back and forget how society was at the time and the obstacles people had in coping with their personal problems in a restrictive unforgiving society.<<

>>If you can - and this will take a lot of maturity on your part - forgive her. She did the best she could at the time when there wasn't any help, shelters, counseling, or caring for women like her in those kinds of situations. And, forgive yourself. You were a child living in an era when child abuse was something people whispered about but never addressed or acknowledged.<<

My mother is a weak bitch, pure and simple. I understand that times were tougher in those days and traditions stricter, but there is no excuse for staying with a man who's beating you up. The only reason I can see that she stayed with him for so long was out of fear that if she left he would find us and kill us. But staying with him means he could just as easily decide to kill her and then take his anger out on my little brother and I anyway. Which is worse... Stay with a man who could decide to kill you one day or leave him and hope that he loses interest or at least never finds you? My mother had family she could turn to and she actualy did... eventually. Anyway, as it turns out mum had had enough and finally left him. Several years later we later discovered he was doing time for some bullshit or another. He had to spend 10 to 15 years behind bars before he could get parol. I'm not exactly sure what he may have done to get that amount of time.

Anyway, I find it very hard to forgive a mother who always seemed to be putting her men before her children. And a mother who leaves her young children in a playground while she goes off to work when there is a possibility some pedophile could pick them up. Admittedly the playground was quite busy with children when she dropped us off there, but a predator knows which children are alone and anyway, it was pretty damned empty when she finally came to get us.

I also find it very hard to forgive her when she seems to have no problem reminding how she feels about never having wanted to be my mother and telling me I should never had a kid in earshot of my own child. And you know what, she even put a pillow over my daughters face briefly once just to shut her up from crying. You think I should forgive her for that? No way in hell! The only reason I found out is because she told me. Yeah, that's right, she actually told me she did it. Why would she do that? To hurt me, that's why. What mother would do that to her daughter, let alone her own granddaughter and she made out like it was nothing for me to be worried about. Well, didn't I have a thing or two to tell her! The bitch will never fucking do that again!!

Oh, and I suppose I should forgive her for spending all of mother's day (this year) at her boyfriends place instead of with her family, right? My little sister made something special for mum and all mum could do on mother's day when she finally got home that night and I confronted her was tell us how no-one appreciates her so why should she spend her mother's day with us. Fact is, I don't really give a shit about mother's day but my little sister (who's only 15) went out of her way to make something special for mum and mum couldn't even be there for her. So my sister spent the day with my daughter and I instead.

>>It appears that you are aware of the problems your daughter is inheriting. That is the first step in healing and undoing your past so your daughter doesn't inherit your problems and your mother's problems.<<

I agree with you there.

>>And, you are an enabler too. You learned your lessons well while growing up. Making that bitch nervous was self-defeating. She was trying to help you and you cast her aside, attempted to make her the victim so you could watch her squirm. It may have made you feel superior, but it also stabbed you in the back.<<

>>Your demons are deep seated and have been feed well all of your life. If you truly seek resolution to calm the demons (which will never go away) and have a decent life for you and your daughter, you will have to invest a lot of time, energy, and pain into this. You will have to be stubborn and not give up in achieving your goal. It is worth it because I believe deep down inside you don't want this kind of life for your daughter. You, above all people, know the agony and pain that comes with living like this.<<

It may have 'stabbed me in the back' so to speak, but I like to manipulate. It's a power thing. I know it's not helping me but I enjoyed doing it. And yes, I don't want my daughter to grow up experiencing the torment and rage that I feel. But, in saying that... if she ever desires to kill. I willing only hope that I am not the one her desires are directed towards. She has already threatened to stab me with my own knife. Mind you, she never touched the knife, just told me she could stab me with it. She also has quite a bad temper and her tantrums are the equivalent of a hurricane, I swear. I actually find it amusing seeing her get so angry. But she has a tendency to whinge more than get angry and that's just downright annoying. Anyway, in saying all that I also know she has alot of compassion for people and unlike me, is very much socially orientated. I have hope for her yet.

>>And, be aware, not all of the human race has earned your hatred. There are some truly wonderful people out there, pure of heart and full of love for others.

Sharon B.<<

And sometimes it's those who appear to be the nicest and most genuine who are often the worst. You might wanna remember that.

After all, I'm sure Ted Bundy's victims considered him a nice person too... until he killed them.

~ Demon Disciple ~

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: Dahmer sane(?) & other issues I have with profiler Robert K Ressler

2005-08-26T08:14:00.000-07:00

Have you received any counseling up to this point in your life????

Tufr

Diana Daemonique <creepy_freaky@arcor.de> wrote:

He did, yes, because he had the opinions of the majority influence him too much. Sadly, he didn't have anyone who was truly on his side. I think so often, if only... well, that's better kept between him and me I guess. Later he had them even talk him into that very unwholesome religion (trying to express myself in a very euphemistic way here). I can't blame him for anything, I know how hard it is when you have to stand absolutely alone, and it took me much time and strength to look through the whole play (society & its standards in general). Most people never even begin to question but just follow the herd... Diana > > Yes, indeed he was although that's all on arbitrarity anyway. They > didn't want him to get any possible advantage by being sent to a > mental facility instead because the scum simply hated him. Sorry, I'm > extremely emotional when it comes to Jeffrey. And I must say I find > it very offensive that the person who posted the original message > calls him "EXTREMELY sick" - by whose standards?! And it makes me > wonder, if s/he already calls Jeffrey thus what they'd want to call > me then? > People set up categories on what's considered sane and what isn't, > but in the end it's just, as I said, arbitrarity. The categories > could as well be very different. But most people just go along with > what they're presented by others and accept it as a law of nature. > But it's refreshing to, albeit rarely, come across some that look a > bit deeper, so as to point out, for instance, that what > today's "civilized society" considers sick and outrageous was > sometimes a normal thing in other cultures - speaking of cannibalism, > human sacrifice, and related things. My mom is an ethnologist and > fortunately open minded to all of this so that I can talk to her > about it all. > > Diana

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Human Emotions

2005-08-26T08:08:00.001-07:00

Kimba D'Michi <kimbasmeow@yahoo.com> wrote:

I get this issue as I too have deep trust issues that have recently surfaced again in my own ability to have healthy male femal relations. I can't seem to trust a man enough to be the loopy female Demon so viamently hates, but I want to be. I dont' want to be dominated but i want to have that deep take care of each through everything trust with someone, I just dont' feel able to trust the other person to do it and hold off and close out. I can't be open and trust, I compartmentalize and am secrative. I harbor and I brude, but I smile and you often can't tell what is truly under the surface.

?????? Have you considered the possibility that this may be due to the fact that you have an ongoing obsession with serial maniacs and other types of major low life felons? Maybe if you moved away from this stuff, and surrounded yourself with more positive things, you might very well find it easier to trust average men, because you wouldn't be thinking that every Tom Dick and Harry you meet is a potential Jack the Ripper.

Tufr

We all have two faces.

Dianna Kemp Ewald <dkewald@fuse.net> wrote:

It sounds to me like you are bragging and enjoying
the audience. Perhaps commitment would be more
helpful...You aren't being a good mother to your
daughter when you retrict your love and fear she
will betray you....true love wouldn't consider betrayal.
Distancing yourself from your daughter can't be
healthy for her..
I don't know why you seem to be insulted that
someone thinks you may be BPD..antisocial
personality disorder isn't something to be
proud of.
I don't think what you describe are human
emotions....certainly not healthy ones.
Dianna ^i^

Demon wrote:

I know for a fact I have Antisocial Personality Disorder because I have been diagnosed with it by a professional. I have even been asked the triad questions. Like I said in a previous post, I have been told by a professional psychiatrist (the first one I was referred to for an initial assessment) that I have traits from several different personality disorders and one of those was definately Antisocial. Aside from that, I have completed an online Personality Disorder test that bases it's results on the Personality Disorders mentioned in the DSM IV and the majority of the disorders in my results happen to be over the 50 percentile mark, with Antisocial the highest at 68% if I can remember correctly. It may have even been higher than that. Where as BPD only came in around 52%. Now I don't put much faith in online tests, but I have a professional psychiatrist tell me the same thing the online test did, so I would say it's pretty damn accurate and therefore proves I have Antisocial Personality Disorder and not BPD as you suggested.

I really don't know why it is so hard to believe that rader could have human emotions. He raised a goddamn family for christs sake. He didn't kill them, did he? And I bet you anything he'd tell you he loves them if you asked him. So, what makes me more believeable than him? Is it because I have a desire to kill and have a tendency to view the majority of the human race as mere cattle, yet he's the one doing the killing (or has done the killing I should say)? It only proves that I have more restraint than he does and that's only out of fear of losing my child. If I didn't have a kid and didn't worry about the possibility of spending the rest of my life rotting away in a prison cell, you can bet your ass I would kill. In fact, I know alot of people would. Alot of people that are too damned afraid to even admit it.

As for feeling empathy, I may care about my family to a certain degree but my daughter is the only person in this world that I have any love for and even that is somewhat restricted out of fear that she will betray me when she gets older. I actually have a habit of distancing myself from her. I worry that if I get too close to her that I will lose her also, so although I love her... I am afraid to love her more than I have to as a mother. To be honest with you, I don't even know if what I feel for her is love. I am saying it is because I fear losing her and I would actually give my life for her, so I presume that is love. I don't know how one defines love, but for me that is how I define love.

I would not want to be compared to Dennis Rader because as far as I am concerned he's an idiot for confessing and it only goes to prove how weak he really is. But, I do believe he has human emotions and I will continue to believe that regardless of what anyone tells me. You can't possibly know everything he feels and make your presumptions on the mere fact that he killed some women. I mean, so fucking what! It doesn't mean he can't love his own family. Is a hunter who hunts for sport incapable of feeling love for his own pets simply because he kills other animals? How can you so easily disregard him as a monster simply because he 'hunted'. People hunt all the time, whether it's animal or human what difference does it make? It doesn't mean we lack other emotion simply because we have the ability to kill. It is easy to disregard the prey as just prey and still love your own pets. People do it all the time. Yet, you don't call a sport shooter who kills animals a psychopath do you?

Hell no, we give murderers their own label because we hate to think they could have any kind of human emotion like other 'normal' humans. It's bullshit. And you know what, I know for a fact most killers experience fear (of capture) or they wouldn't try to cover their tracks so damn well. Why would they bother to avoid detection if they had no emotion? Why would they care? The fact is, fear is a human emotion and therefore it only goes to prove that killers can experience human emotion.

~ Demon Disciple ~

----- Original Message -----

From: abgitatz@aol.com

To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 6:47 PM

Subject: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: BTK Killer Sentenced to Life in Prison<bye bye Dennis>

That's great, and you should believe that Radar can be cured all you want. All I am saying is that in truth no psychopath has ever been cured, and its not likely to happen in our life times. Well right there on your second point you proved me right. You do feel empathy for other humans. Namely you daughter, and to some degree you family. Radar can not feel those emotions at all, you are in fact capable. Listen I am not trying to lecture you about yourself, or try to "fix" you. The only person that could ever correct what is wrong with you is in fact you. What I was implying was that you are not like Radar because you are better then him, and are far more sane then him.

Evan

PS. Females tend to develop Borderline Personality Disorder, and not Anti Social Personality Disorder, if you think you share traits with Radar you might want to read up on it.

In a message dated 8/20/2005 7:44:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dem0n@bigpond.net.au writes:

You're wrong about two things... one, I believe he can be cured and two, I have no empathy for humans (except my daughter). I see empathy as a wasted emotion on people who do not deserve it. I see humans as cattle to be slaughtered. I have a real hate for the human race in general, you can be assured of that. And not only that, I am a very dominant sadist who also desires power and control, so you can also be assured that I am very good at treating humans as nothing more than property to be owned.

Do you seriously think I care about people. I care about my family to a certain degree and love my daughter, but I really don't give a shit about the rest of humanity and why should I? I have been treated like trash for the majority of my life. Why should I bother to care when it's easier to stop caring? It takes away the pain, but it takes away everything else also. That is a sacrifice I have to live with.

When I seek help (I'm seeing another shrink soon) it's for my daughters sake only. I'm doing it so I can be a better person for her and her alone. I don't give a fuck what humanity thinks of me, but I care alot what my little girl thinks of me and that's all that matters, nothing else.

~ Demon Disciple ~

"Society wants to believe it can identify evil people, or bad or harmful people, but it's not practical. There are no stereotypes. The thing is that some people are just psychologically less ready for failure than others." Theodore Robert Bundy**********"See you later crocagator" Zack Lestat********

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] joe1orbit...?

2005-08-26T08:08:00.000-07:00

Two people wrote the theory of evolution at the same time.

Darwin published a week or so early so he's the one whose name we remember. These were two men in different parts of the world who had never met. They seperatly, at the same time, came up with the theory of evoluion.

Two men also designed the first IC (integrated circuit) at the exact same time, in two totally seperate environments, and had no knowledge of each other or their respective works.

I'm sure there are many more examples that I'm missing.

Demon <dem0n@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

1) First of all, I don't need to chill because I wasn't angry anyway and I never said you made up that user name.

2) I am fully aware you never said 'you are the only one who thinks your way' and I don't recall having suggested anywhere that you did. Mentioning that there are other people who have a similar mind to myself was simply a statement. I was not suggesting that you yourself think any differently on the matter.

3) I really don't know how someone's expressions can be EXACTLY the same as mine when I am not that person. Of course, I know I am not the only one who views humans as nothing more than cattle to be slaughtered. That is a reference that I am certain has been used by others in the past. Not because I have previously heard the term being used, but simply because it is a relevant statement from someone with a hate for a humanity. It is reference to how I feel.

I am aware that people can have similar thought patterns, but you are inferring that joe1orbit and I are one and the same simply based on something that is clearly a coincidence.

What else can I say...? All I can honestly tell you is he is not me, nor I him. I could even prove it, but considering how certain people view me in here, I really don't think it is worth my time.

Here's hoping this 'non-relevant to the group' topic of discussion will finally be put to rest...

Demon

-------Original Message-------

From: Kathy Giles

Date: 08/24/05 12:04:52

To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: BTK Killer Sentenced to Life in Prison

On Aug 22, 2005, at 12:57 AM, Demon wrote:

> Well, I can assure you I am NOT joe1orbit and besides, I sure as hell

> wouldn't choose a lame ass user name like joe1orbit anyway. I also

> know I am not the only person who thinks the way I do. Alot of people

> have murder fantasies. Of course, there are only a few like myself who

> have a real desire to kill, but they do exist.

1)  Chill, already.  I didn't make up the username.

2)  I never said you were the only one who thinks your way.

3)  I didn't ask about the identity because you have murder fantasies.

Hell, I have had them for the past 2 weeks after the recent crap my

landlord tried to pull.  I asked because of expressions you've used

that are EXACTLY the same.  I said that in my post, by the way.

>> ----- Original Message -----

>> From: Kathy Giles

>> On Aug 21, 2005, at 7:05 AM, Demon wrote:

>>

>>> Who the hell is joe1orbit?

>>

>>

>> Someone on another list who says the stuff you say word for word.

>> Stuff about not having a soul because of others killing it, not

>> caring about other humans, etc. You sound exactly the same. That's

>> why I asked.

>>

>>

>>>> ----- Original Message -----

>>>> From: Kathy Giles

>>>> On Aug 20, 2005, at 8:15 AM, Demon wrote:

>>>>

>>>>> You're wrong about two things... one, I believe he can be cured

>>>>> and two, I have no empathy for humans (except my daughter).

>>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>>>>

>>>> Wait? Are you joe1orbit?

>>>>

>>>> Kathy

Kathy

Click below to read my latest thoughts

on movies, tv and my own life in the

entertainment business!

http://www.midnightmoviehouse.com

vamp@tbcnet.com

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: BTK Killer Sentenced to Life in Prison

2005-08-26T07:54:00.000-07:00

While reaction may be a part of her posts, I will disagree a bit here.

She knows she's fucked up. She's holding no punches. Telling her she's fucked up is pointless. She acknowledges and accepts this as fact already. Why be redundant?

She's also processing and I want to ask the list to not just tell her she's fucked up. She knows that. Sounding board her be intrigued by the chance to glimpse something you will never likely truly understand. See this as an opportunity to experience something rather than a chance to jab

Don't be bambi, be another hunting walking beside her trying to sort this out so to speak.

Dianna Kemp Ewald <dkewald@fuse.net> wrote:

I think you're just enjoying writing these perverted things.
You have an audience (you think)
Not only is your name designed to get attention, your
writings are obviously designed to do the same.
Get help "if" this is how you feel.
I'm not sure you've joined this list for anything other
than to hear yourself and our reaction.
Dianna ^i^

Demon wrote:

I have sought help twice in the past and nothing worked. I'm supposed to be seeing a psychologist soon, but I would be very suprised if he can help me. The last one (a psychiatrist) couldn't do jack shit. In fact, I got more amusement out of making that bitch nervous than I did in trying to get better. Before that I was christian for awhile and tried spiritual counselling but in the end I think they were starting to believe I might be posessed, lol.

The fact is, you have to really want to 'get better' before you can and only part of me wants to 'get better'. The other half doesn't. Why? because I enjoy thinking about killing people. It gives me a certain thrill to imagine stabbing someone to death. My desire for power and control has become an addiction. My wants have become needs and those needs torment me. Not because I have a desire to stop wanting to kill but because I can't just go out and kill whenever I get the desire to, which is pretty damned often.

Like I said in another post, there is apart of me that does want to stop... that wants to end this continual rage. But the fact is, I have more faith in rage than I do in love. Love can be deceptive. It can betray you. Rage is constant. It is an emotion that can be trusted to be what it is. People hide behind many masks in life and these masks are often masks of deception, lies and betrayal. I don't put too much faith in love because it is often just a mask. I am even afraid to allow myself to fully love my daughter for fear that she will betray me when she gets older. Therefore although I do love her, I have a tendency to distance myself from her. In other words, Although my daughter lives with me, I don't spend much time with her. I don't enjoy playing with her. I don't enjoy doing things with her that most other parents enjoy doing with their children. I like knowing that she's there, but not having to spend time with her. Which is exactly why I am seeking professional help for her sake.

~ Demon Disciple ~

----- Original Message -----

From: Dianna Kemp Ewald

To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 3:19 PM

Subject: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: BTK Killer Sentenced to Life in Prison<bye bye Dennis>

I totally agree...this person needs professional help.
I have 3 4 leggers in my home and it would be like
killing one of my children. To casually say that you
can kill an animal and it's normal for humans to have
a desire to kill is scary stuff.
Thank God more folks don't feel that way.
By the way, I was sexually, physically and mentally
tortured from birth until I was 10..then just
physically and mentally abused until I left home
at 18. It left me with a lot of pain and a lot of
compassion for those folks who also have to endure
those things. I got professional help to deal with my
pain. It's not normal to want to lash out at society.
Get help, break the cycle.
Dianna ^i^

nancy m gibson wrote:

If you are being honest in your posts, you are probably a sociopath.

Lots of people have troubled childhoods and they don't grow up

with a desire to kill. I am very sorry you had such a rotten

childhood, and I hope you get the help you need especially for

the sake of your child. The fact that you could kill an animal

for any reason however makes me feel rather sick. Sorry to

be so blunt but my animals are like my children to me and the

thought that any one could be so careless about their precious

little lives------------------------------------------------Nan

I am a dominant, aggressive woman myself and I attribute that to environmental factors (exposure to violence growing up) and psychological factors (how that exposure has affected my mental development). I have the ability and desire to kill for power and control. I have done alot of illigal shit in the past. The only that stops me from actually killing is the fear of losing my child and my freedom.

~ Demon Disciple

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Dahmer sane(?) & other issues I have with profiler Robert K Ressler

2005-08-26T07:52:00.000-07:00

It is a shame that he was murdered himself as he was cooperating with the powers to be to figure himself out, as you said he acknowledged he would continue to kill if released and he was curious himself as to why.

Hvnscyld <hvnscyld@cfl.rr.com> wrote:

I agree with youI.I watched an interview with Dahmer.He said he was sorry for what he had done and that he knew it was wrong.He had turned to Christianity in prison.But what he said next was the proof that he was not legally crazy.He said that even though he didnt ever "want" to do this again and that he was sorry for what he did do,that they should never let him out of prison because the Need and Drive to do what he did was to strong and that even though he may try very hard to stop he couldnt say that he would.To keep whatever future victims there may be safe,he needed to stay where he was.

-------Original Message-------

From: a

Date: 08/24/05 06:58:04

To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Dahmer sane(?) & other issues I have with profiler Robert K Ressler

The FBI's Behavioral Science unit was created/opened, post Hoover FBI, (he thought profiling was like witchcraft or voodoo) by John Douglas and Robert K Ressler. They went around with case files of apprehended serial killers/rapists and interviewed them. They collected the data, found similarities, and used psychologial tricks to get into the minds of many well known serial offenders. One of the things they found, for instance, is by knowing the basal personality type of the offender, they could force info out of them. Take David Berkowitz, for instance. He is not a killer that was very forceful. He made sneak attacks that didnt require any type of contact with his victims. From this information, and other info in the case file, they were able to tell that they would be control him easily since he wasnt one to be controlling or dominant in any way. When they interviewed him they asked him about the dog, the infamous Sam. He told them the same old story "the dog told me to do it" and so they responded by saying "cut the crap, David, it had nothing to do with the dog did it?" He looked a little sheepish and then admitted that they were correct and the dog story was just a story he made up. (*I don't remember which book this was from but I do know it was one by John Douglas, one of his first and the only one that goes into detail about the origins of the Behavioral Science Unit.) When they interviewed Manson, they found that he took great pains to take control. He even sat on the top of his chair (due to his small stature) as to seem larger than the two agents. Due to his personality they allowed him to "feel big" and in control in order to talk to him with more ease. Douglas and Ressler took their findings/notes, case file, and their many years of experience in the field and took them to the powers that be. This is how the Behavioral Science Unit was started. My issue with Ressler is that he, in many of his books, has tauted himself as starting the Unit. He never mentions Douglas and often comes across as smug. Douglas, on the other hand has always mentioned Ressler. My second, and more important, issue with Douglas is that he was the profiler called forth to profile and testify as to sanity/insanity in the Dahmer case. He testified that Dahmer was insane. I'm sorry, but pretty much anyone with knowledge of the insanity plea requirements knows that it means that the defendant didnt know the difference between right and wrong. Dahmer obviously knew the difference. #1) He lied to the police when they returned the naked and dazed 14-year-old Konerak Sinthasomphone to him. He told them they were lovers and had had a quarrel and that the boy was drunk. Actually, the boy was dazed because, not only had he been drugged but also had a small hole drilled in his head and Dahmer had poured acid into it in an attempt to make an automated zombie sex slave. #2) He had many, many locks on his door to keep victims from getting out and also had a small surveillance camera set up. #3) He lied about the stench emanating from his apartment when his neighbors complained to him. He said it was dead fish from his aquarium. #4) When he murdered his first victim, Stephen Hicks, he had put the dismembered body into trash bags and put them in his car. He drove to get rid of them elsewhere. Along the way, he was pulled over by a police officer. Dahmer told him he was getting rid of some garbage. The officer told him to get home and so he did just as he was asked and so, instead, he took the remains to the woods behind his house and strewed them around the forest. All of this points to a carefully calculating criminal who can quite easily think on his feet to appear normal and avoid detection. Therefore, it appalled me when I heard that in Ressler's "expert" opinion not to mention all of his valuable experience, he thought Dahmer to be insane. Yes, Dahmer was an EXTREMELY sick individual and by no means normal but insane he was certainly not. For another thing, he was an organized killer and no organized killer can be insane. Richard Trenton Chase was insane and a disorganized killer. Dahmer was in full control of his situation. Just a thought and a rant I've been waiting to air in a forum such as this one.

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[SeRiAL CRiMeS] Psychopaths-serial killers

2005-08-26T07:47:00.000-07:00

I was always under the impression that it goes "most serial killers
are psychopaths, but not all psychopaths are serial killers" Are
pycho and sociopaths interchangable terms now?? When my ex and I were
going through the whole divorce/custody thing, we both underwent heavy
duty psychological testing...the doc told me my ex tested out as a
sociopath, when I asked for further clarification, she asked me if I
had ever heard of Ted Bundy. I can personally attest to the "no
conscience" characteristic, I lived with it for a few years. And while
there may have been no remorse for the things he did...he simply
didn't understand that within the "scope of the balance of good &
evil" his actions WERE evil, like he lived in an alternate reality.
He did show remorse when his Mother and Brother passed away........
Just my simple little experience
Kim

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Human Emotions

2005-08-26T07:44:00.000-07:00

"I don't think what you describe are human
emotions"

she's human right? Then they are human emotions, deep cored, ugly ones, but human emotions.

I'm glad you can't relate. I'm glad so many on the list can't relate. It speaks to your health.

I get this issue as I too have deep trust issues that have recently surfaced again in my own ability to have healthy male femal relations. I can't seem to trust a man enough to be the loopy female Demon so viamently hates, but I want to be. I dont' want to be dominated but i want to have that deep take care of each through everything trust with someone, I just dont' feel able to trust the other person to do it and hold off and close out. I can't be open and trust, I compartmentalize and am secrative. I harbor and I brude, but I smile and you often can't tell what is truly under the surface.

We all have two faces.

Dianna Kemp Ewald <dkewald@fuse.net> wrote:

It sounds to me like you are bragging and enjoying
the audience. Perhaps commitment would be more
helpful...You aren't being a good mother to your
daughter when you retrict your love and fear she
will betray you....true love wouldn't consider betrayal.
Distancing yourself from your daughter can't be
healthy for her..
I don't know why you seem to be insulted that
someone thinks you may be BPD..antisocial
personality disorder isn't something to be
proud of.
I don't think what you describe are human
emotions....certainly not healthy ones.
Dianna ^i^

Demon wrote:

I know for a fact I have Antisocial Personality Disorder because I have been diagnosed with it by a professional. I have even been asked the triad questions. Like I said in a previous post, I have been told by a professional psychiatrist (the first one I was referred to for an initial assessment) that I have traits from several different personality disorders and one of those was definately Antisocial. Aside from that, I have completed an online Personality Disorder test that bases it's results on the Personality Disorders mentioned in the DSM IV and the majority of the disorders in my results happen to be over the 50 percentile mark, with Antisocial the highest at 68% if I can remember correctly. It may have even been higher than that. Where as BPD only came in around 52%. Now I don't put much faith in online tests, but I have a professional psychiatrist tell me the same thing the online test did, so I would say it's pretty damn accurate and therefore proves I have Antisocial Personality Disorder and not BPD as you suggested.

I really don't know why it is so hard to believe that rader could have human emotions. He raised a goddamn family for christs sake. He didn't kill them, did he? And I bet you anything he'd tell you he loves them if you asked him. So, what makes me more believeable than him? Is it because I have a desire to kill and have a tendency to view the majority of the human race as mere cattle, yet he's the one doing the killing (or has done the killing I should say)? It only proves that I have more restraint than he does and that's only out of fear of losing my child. If I didn't have a kid and didn't worry about the possibility of spending the rest of my life rotting away in a prison cell, you can bet your ass I would kill. In fact, I know alot of people would. Alot of people that are too damned afraid to even admit it.

As for feeling empathy, I may care about my family to a certain degree but my daughter is the only person in this world that I have any love for and even that is somewhat restricted out of fear that she will betray me when she gets older. I actually have a habit of distancing myself from her. I worry that if I get too close to her that I will lose her also, so although I love her... I am afraid to love her more than I have to as a mother. To be honest with you, I don't even know if what I feel for her is love. I am saying it is because I fear losing her and I would actually give my life for her, so I presume that is love. I don't know how one defines love, but for me that is how I define love.

I would not want to be compared to Dennis Rader because as far as I am concerned he's an idiot for confessing and it only goes to prove how weak he really is. But, I do believe he has human emotions and I will continue to believe that regardless of what anyone tells me. You can't possibly know everything he feels and make your presumptions on the mere fact that he killed some women. I mean, so fucking what! It doesn't mean he can't love his own family. Is a hunter who hunts for sport incapable of feeling love for his own pets simply because he kills other animals? How can you so easily disregard him as a monster simply because he 'hunted'. People hunt all the time, whether it's animal or human what difference does it make? It doesn't mean we lack other emotion simply because we have the ability to kill. It is easy to disregard the prey as just prey and still love your own pets. People do it all the time. Yet, you don't call a sport shooter who kills animals a psychopath do you?

Hell no, we give murderers their own label because we hate to think they could have any kind of human emotion like other 'normal' humans. It's bullshit. And you know what, I know for a fact most killers experience fear (of capture) or they wouldn't try to cover their tracks so damn well. Why would they bother to avoid detection if they had no emotion? Why would they care? The fact is, fear is a human emotion and therefore it only goes to prove that killers can experience human emotion.

~ Demon Disciple ~

----- Original Message -----

From: abgitatz@aol.com

To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 6:47 PM

Subject: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: BTK Killer Sentenced to Life in Prison<bye bye Dennis>

That's great, and you should believe that Radar can be cured all you want. All I am saying is that in truth no psychopath has ever been cured, and its not likely to happen in our life times. Well right there on your second point you proved me right. You do feel empathy for other humans. Namely you daughter, and to some degree you family. Radar can not feel those emotions at all, you are in fact capable. Listen I am not trying to lecture you about yourself, or try to "fix" you. The only person that could ever correct what is wrong with you is in fact you. What I was implying was that you are not like Radar because you are better then him, and are far more sane then him.

Evan

PS. Females tend to develop Borderline Personality Disorder, and not Anti Social Personality Disorder, if you think you share traits with Radar you might want to read up on it.

In a message dated 8/20/2005 7:44:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dem0n@bigpond.net.au writes:

You're wrong about two things... one, I believe he can be cured and two, I have no empathy for humans (except my daughter). I see empathy as a wasted emotion on people who do not deserve it. I see humans as cattle to be slaughtered. I have a real hate for the human race in general, you can be assured of that. And not only that, I am a very dominant sadist who also desires power and control, so you can also be assured that I am very good at treating humans as nothing more than property to be owned.

Do you seriously think I care about people. I care about my family to a certain degree and love my daughter, but I really don't give a shit about the rest of humanity and why should I? I have been treated like trash for the majority of my life. Why should I bother to care when it's easier to stop caring? It takes away the pain, but it takes away everything else also. That is a sacrifice I have to live with.

When I seek help (I'm seeing another shrink soon) it's for my daughters sake only. I'm doing it so I can be a better person for her and her alone. I don't give a fuck what humanity thinks of me, but I care alot what my little girl thinks of me and that's all that matters, nothing else.

~ Demon Disciple ~

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Questions Answered

2005-08-26T07:43:00.000-07:00

I agree

nancy m gibson <nmgibson@JUNO.COM> wrote:

Sharon what a great post filled with good advise.

Nan

Why are you seeking out a male psychologist's counseling? You should be seeking out a female psychologist's counseling . . . one who understands the female mind and the affects of male dominance and abuse. And you should include sessions with you, your daughter, and the counselor.

As for your mother, she was an enabler and she was weak. But, bear in mind of the time period. She was raised in a society that believed the man ruled the house and women didn't have many choices as a single mother. Any man was better than no man in her world. Not that it excuses your childhood situation, but that's how things were then. It's easy to look back and forget how society was at the time and the obstacles people had in coping with their personal problems in a restrictive unforgiving society.

If you can - and this will take a lot of maturity on your part - forgive her. She did the best she could at the time when there wasn't any help, shelters, counseling, or caring for women like her in those kinds of situations. And, forgive yourself. You were a child living in an era when child abuse was something people whispered about but never addressed or acknowledged.

It appears that you are aware of the problems your daughter is inheriting. That is the first step in healing and undoing your past so your daughter doesn't inherit your problems and your mother's problems.

And, you are an enabler too. You learned your lessons well while growing up. Making that bitch nervous was self-defeating. She was trying to help you and you cast her aside, attempted to make her the victim so you could watch her squirm. It may have made you feel superior, but it also stabbed you in the back.

Your demons are deep seated and have been feed well all of your life. If you truly seek resolution to calm the demons (which will never go away) and have a decent life for you and your daughter, you will have to invest a lot of time, energy, and pain into this. You will have to be stubborn and not give up in achieving your goal. It is worth it because I believe deep down inside you don't want this kind of life for your daughter. You, above all people, know the agony and pain that comes with living like this.

As I've said before here in this forum, we women MUST be tigresses for our children. No one else will do it for us. No one else will protect them like we can.

And, be aware, not all of the human race has earned your hatred. There are some truly wonderful people out there, pure of heart and full of love for others.

Sharon B.

"Society wants to believe it can identify evil people, or bad or harmful people, but it's not practical. There are no stereotypes. The thing is that some people are just psychologically less ready for failure than others." Theodore Robert Bundy**********"See you later crocagator" Zack Lestat********

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Questions Answered

2005-08-26T07:41:00.000-07:00

I manipulated my shrink at 14. Different motivation. I used her to get my mom to have to do things as well as myself. I molded the sessions to benefit my own motivations. Trip that at 14 I could run a counseling session (my mom and I went for about 3 months) My mom took us out as it was not going her way so to speak. I dominated them.

You need a good Doctor, not one who is weak. I agree that your last was as how could she not see your games? You were smarter than her. You need to find one that you can actually respect, male or female, you need to shop them and find one that matches you.

Demon <dem0n@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

>>Why are you seeking out a male psychologist's counseling? You should be seeking out a female psychologist's counseling . . . one who understands the female mind and the affects of male dominance and abuse. And you should include sessions with you, your daughter, and the counselor.<<

Why? Partly because I see most women as weak. I am a woman myself, but I know I am strong. I don't allow men to rule my life. People say times have changed, but look around you and you will see it is still a male dominated world. Admittedly, there are alot of weak men in the world too. The submissive types, but even so men still tend to rule the roost. Men get more respect than women do in the workplace and even paid more for doing the same damn job. How is that fair? Why should women be treated second best? Some of these weak pathetic bitches even allow themselves to be treated no better than meat in a marketplace. If that's the way these women want to be treated than I am more than happy to oblige (after all, I am not just a sadist, but also a bi sadist). If they want to be treated that way, then they deserve to be treated that way.

As for the female psychiatrist I was seeing in the past, basically I saw her as a 'toy' to be played with. A woman I could manipulate and by making her nervous I proved she is no better than those other woman who are easily manipulated. Fact is, at the time I didn't have a choice in the matter when it came to gender. She was the only psychiatrist available at the time and still a trainee, so it didn't cost me anything to see her. I think she only had a year to go before she became a fully-fledged psychiatrist.

This time around I was advised by my daughters' child psychologist to seek help again. When I moved back up here to where I am living now, I had actually rang the psychiatrist I used to see (without any response for awhile) and then finally, she rang me back and I went back to see her only to discover that the new session times would not be suitable (I don't have a car and am forced to rely on public transport. So am therefore restricted with time). I was also under the impression that she was reluctant to see me again anyway. Her, initially not returning several of my calls, gave that away. The only reason she finally returned my call is because I spoke to one of the psychologists at Mental Health (instead of the receptionist) and he passed the message onto her personally. I told him she had not returned several of my calls.

So anyway, getting back on track... my daughter's psychologist advised I seek professional help again and asked me if I prefered to see a male or female psychologist. I chose male because I have more confidence that he won't be as weak with me as the female psychiatrist was. I am not saying men are mentally stronger than women because I don't believe that for one moment. But I have no doubt I will try to manipulate him like I did her because for me it is a power thing. Besides, I enjoy doing it.

>>As for your mother, she was an enabler and she was weak. But, bear in mind of the time period. She was raised in a society that believed the man ruled the house and women didn't have many choices as a single mother. Any man was better than no man in her world. Not that it excuses your childhood situation, but that's how things were then. It's easy to look back and forget how society was at the time and the obstacles people had in coping with their personal problems in a restrictive unforgiving society.<<

>>If you can - and this will take a lot of maturity on your part - forgive her. She did the best she could at the time when there wasn't any help, shelters, counseling, or caring for women like her in those kinds of situations. And, forgive yourself. You were a child living in an era when child abuse was something people whispered about but never addressed or acknowledged.<<

My mother is a weak bitch, pure and simple. I understand that times were tougher in those days and traditions stricter, but there is no excuse for staying with a man who's beating you up. The only reason I can see that she stayed with him for so long was out of fear that if she left he would find us and kill us. But staying with him means he could just as easily decide to kill her and then take his anger out on my little brother and I anyway. Which is worse... Stay with a man who could decide to kill you one day or leave him and hope that he loses interest or at least never finds you? My mother had family she could turn to and she actualy did... eventually. Anyway, as it turns out mum had had enough and finally left him. Several years later we later discovered he was doing time for some bullshit or another. He had to spend 10 to 15 years behind bars before he could get parol. I'm not exactly sure what he may have done to get that amount of time.

Anyway, I find it very hard to forgive a mother who always seemed to be putting her men before her children. And a mother who leaves her young children in a playground while she goes off to work when there is a possibility some pedophile could pick them up. Admittedly the playground was quite busy with children when she dropped us off there, but a predator knows which children are alone and anyway, it was pretty damned empty when she finally came to get us.

I also find it very hard to forgive her when she seems to have no problem reminding how she feels about never having wanted to be my mother and telling me I should never had a kid in earshot of my own child. And you know what, she even put a pillow over my daughters face briefly once just to shut her up from crying. You think I should forgive her for that? No way in hell! The only reason I found out is because she told me. Yeah, that's right, she actually told me she did it. Why would she do that? To hurt me, that's why. What mother would do that to her daughter, let alone her own granddaughter and she made out like it was nothing for me to be worried about. Well, didn't I have a thing or two to tell her! The bitch will never fucking do that again!!

Oh, and I suppose I should forgive her for spending all of mother's day (this year) at her boyfriends place instead of with her family, right? My little sister made something special for mum and all mum could do on mother's day when she finally got home that night and I confronted her was tell us how no-one appreciates her so why should she spend her mother's day with us. Fact is, I don't really give a shit about mother's day but my little sister (who's only 15) went out of her way to make something special for mum and mum couldn't even be there for her. So my sister spent the day with my daughter and I instead.

>>It appears that you are aware of the problems your daughter is inheriting. That is the first step in healing and undoing your past so your daughter doesn't inherit your problems and your mother's problems.<<

I agree with you there.

>>And, you are an enabler too. You learned your lessons well while growing up. Making that bitch nervous was self-defeating. She was trying to help you and you cast her aside, attempted to make her the victim so you could watch her squirm. It may have made you feel superior, but it also stabbed you in the back.<<

>>Your demons are deep seated and have been feed well all of your life. If you truly seek resolution to calm the demons (which will never go away) and have a decent life for you and your daughter, you will have to invest a lot of time, energy, and pain into this. You will have to be stubborn and not give up in achieving your goal. It is worth it because I believe deep down inside you don't want this kind of life for your daughter. You, above all people, know the agony and pain that comes with living like this.<<

It may have 'stabbed me in the back' so to speak, but I like to manipulate. It's a power thing. I know it's not helping me but I enjoyed doing it. And yes, I don't want my daughter to grow up experiencing the torment and rage that I feel. But, in saying that... if she ever desires to kill. I willing only hope that I am not the one her desires are directed towards. She has already threatened to stab me with my own knife. Mind you, she never touched the knife, just told me she could stab me with it. She also has quite a bad temper and her tantrums are the equivalent of a hurricane, I swear. I actually find it amusing seeing her get so angry. But she has a tendency to whinge more than get angry and that's just downright annoying. Anyway, in saying all that I also know she has alot of compassion for people and unlike me, is very much socially orientated. I have hope for her yet.

>>And, be aware, not all of the human race has earned your hatred. There are some truly wonderful people out there, pure of heart and full of love for others.

Sharon B.<<

And sometimes it's those who appear to be the nicest and most genuine who are often the worst. You might wanna remember that.

After all, I'm sure Ted Bundy's victims considered him a nice person too... until he killed them.

~ Demon Disciple ~

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Intro...

2005-08-26T07:33:00.000-07:00

Vivi, what's up with Eugene? Any new plans now that the hub is out of work?

vivisectrix <vivisectrix@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Kathy, >>People here here have always been polite to me. >Turfmone wasn't. However, I know several people (myself >included) quickly jumped to your defense when that happened. >Good to see you! You've been much too quiet! Wow. I totally don't remember anybody named Turfmone, or anybody being particularly rude to me here. Which is nice, on one level, because who needs to remember crappy people? But it's a bummer too, because it means I don't get to remember people standing up for me, which I would totally appreciate and be grateful for. Hopefully I expressed that when it happened, and if I didn't, I'm sorry. But it may explain why I generally feel so good about the regulars on this group. Some bit of me has proof that the acceptance I get here is is more than just silent "Whatever, there's the Vivi bitch posting again" type stuff. I go through long periods of silence in my groups. Means nothing except that I can't think of anything to say. I do read though, especially when people post personal stuff. I don't exactly pray, but I did light a candle and talk to the gods a bit about Sharon's nephew, and was really glad to hear about his recovery. I'm sure some of you know that my bio-father finally died. I posted on ATC a few weeks after it happened. I got the call that he was in hospital and unlikely to survive and I borrowed the money to get a plane ticket because that was one deathwatch I wasn't willing to miss. I stood at his bedside and watched him die. It wasn't pretty and it wasn't clean and it was obviously hell for him. I enjoyed every second of it. And when he was dead and I had a moment alone with his corpse, I placed sea-salt at his five points and ordered him to never return. Later, when I found out that my mother planned to place his ashes in her garden, I used the garden she mentioned as a toilet. Is there a word for the opposite of mourning? I took a quick look at possible antonyms and none of them are quite right. Mourning is a state of mind, you see, and a series of activities, not just a feeling. And the antonyms that come up are happiness, cheerful, joy... and none of those quite fit. They're just feelings. So I'll just say that I've been in a state of opposite-mourning since Friday 13 of May. My bio-mother has replaced him already, which under normal circumstances, I would be very pleased about, but she replaced him with another scumbag who has not actually molested any of my nieces or their friends, but has a habit of letting his hands wander where they shouldn't be, to stare at their chests instead of their faces, and to leer at them while making inappropriate sexual comments. All the girls in the family down there are well into their teens, and none of them are willing to put up with his shit. So two months after Dad died, the family confronted both of them, and drew a line in the sand. We had hoped somehow that our mother would free herself now that our father was gone, and start being what she appeared to want to be, a loving grandmother. We had hoped that we'd be able to develop some kind of positive relationship with her. And I had hoped that perhaps I'd finally be willing to let my own children (all grown but one) have some contact with her and get a little sense of their family history. But we've learned that whatever was wrong with her when she was 19 years old and hooked up with our father, a violent, sociopathic, sadistic, sexual predator with absolutely zero boundaries, would have changed. Perhaps it has. This new guy isn't violent or sadistic, but he's no less a scuzzball. Another lesson learned. Women who are attracted to the scum at the bottom of the barrel change as rarely as the scum does. As for my own predilictions, someone on ATC asked if I thought they'd alleviate with my father's death, and I told him I had no idea. It hadn't crossed my mind. I told him that menopause has lessened all of my sexual drives, but hasn't changed them. That seems to still be true. I'm still ruled by my own sense of "being polite" and I'd likely never act on my strongest desires, but it still bums me out that I'll never get to kill someone just for fun. Of course, that particular desire doesn't seem to be really stem from my sexual needs. There's a connection there of course, but it's a rather light connection. The emotional feeling connected with thoughts of acting out on that desire is more about fun than sex. General life stuff... My husband got layed off and has been out of work for almost six months. At about the same time, I sort of fell into a job at our local Animal Shelter. I hadn't done this sort of work in 15 years, and when I quit, I quit because I was so burned out I wasn't going to make it another week without losing it and killing a human being. But that burnout seems to have faded and I'm enjoying the work again. I don't have to do euthanasias, which is probably good. I don't think doing those was good for me on any level... it definitely made it a lot easier to think about killin' humans, and a lot harder to avoid thinking' about killin' humans. My job is part-time, and just this week my hours ran out. I'll be going back in November or December, but right now, our income is limited to Stan's unemployment, and he's madly searching for a job. We're super tight, but not yet poor. I've been poor, and we're not there yet. But if Stan doesn't find work, we will be soon. I'd rather not work during these dry months until November, but if I have to, I'll sling some burgers or something equally as demeaning. I don't mind workin' shit jobs so long as they're temporary. Hrm. Dunno why I felt the need to spew all that on ya'll, but I'll be sending anyhow. Kathy, thank you again for defending me against someone who was rude to me. I do appreciate it, even though I don't remember it. Oh! I bet I don't remember it because when he was rude, I'd have simply deleted his post. I don't respond to rude people. I would have read responses, but likely wouldn't have responded to them if they were in the same thread. So once I closed his original post, I'd stuck it in my forgettery. Vivi I wanna play with a pathetic suicidal masochist. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: BTK Killer Sentenced to Life in Prison

2005-08-26T07:27:00.000-07:00

Yet you spill here so you obviously do need human interaction you just can't tolerate it on an physical proximity level.

This is a start. Talking to a bunch of strangers and releaseing is helping you process. Hopefully it is also showing you that not all of us deserve to bambi.

Demon <dem0n@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

I killed the animals out of anger ok. To shut them up. I don't do that anymore and that's probably because the only pet I have now is a cat that stays outside all the time. I still have a quick temper and limited tolerance but I don't hurt my cat. I may grab her by the scruff of the neck and throw her back outside when she tries to come in, but I really don't consider that anything to be concerned about. I used to be a hunter, so I'm used to killing animals, it's no big deal. And just so you know, I happen to like animals more than I like humans. I have very, very limited tolerance for humans. Most humans deserve to be hunted for sport rather than animals as far as I am concerned.

~ Demon Disciple ~

----- Original Message -----

From: nancy m gibson

To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 1:37 PM

Subject: Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: BTK Killer Sentenced to Life in Prison<bye bye Dennis>

If you are being honest in your posts, you are probably a sociopath.

Lots of people have troubled childhoods and they don't grow up

with a desire to kill. I am very sorry you had such a rotten

childhood, and I hope you get the help you need especially for

the sake of your child. The fact that you could kill an animal

for any reason however makes me feel rather sick. Sorry to

be so blunt but my animals are like my children to me and the

thought that any one could be so careless about their precious

little lives------------------------------------------------Nan

I am a dominant, aggressive woman myself and I attribute that to environmental factors (exposure to violence growing up) and psychological factors (how that exposure has affected my mental development). I have the ability and desire to kill for power and control. I have done alot of illigal shit in the past. The only that stops me from actually killing is the fear of losing my child and my freedom.

~ Demon Disciple

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] a creepy new member

2005-08-26T07:21:00.000-07:00

Welcome Diana! Nice name!! :O)

Diana

On 8/24/05, Diana Daemonique <creepy_freaky@arcor.de> wrote:

Hi all,
my name is Diana and I just joined here, being a great admirer of
serial killers in general, and in particular of my only love Jeffrey
Dahmer. In general I admire their courage to act out their dark desires
at the risk of a so unspeakably grave price that most of them
eventually have to pay, unfortunately.
Myself I'm certainly an extremely eccentric but not very secretive
person of also very conspicuous appearance (female bodybuilder, mostly
mistaken for male crossdresser), my only way of acting out my own
desires is my art and it is free for everyone to see/read.
For the most part, however, I think I'm a pretty amiable monster... :-)
Looking forward to interesting discussions,
dark regards,

Diana

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: BTK Killer Sentenced to Life in Prison

2005-08-26T07:20:00.000-07:00

They can't be cured but they can learn to adapt to society. The best ones seem perfectly normal to you and I. Don't forget that.

abgitatz@aol.com wrote:

That's great, and you should believe that Radar can be cured all you want. All I am saying is that in truth no psychopath has ever been cured, and its not likely to happen in our life times. Well right there on your second point you proved me right. You do feel empathy for other humans. Namely you daughter, and to some degree you family. Radar can not feel those emotions at all, you are in fact capable. Listen I am not trying to lecture you about yourself, or try to "fix" you. The only person that could ever correct what is wrong with you is in fact you. What I was implying was that you are not like Radar because you are better then him, and are far more sane then him.

Evan

PS. Females tend to develop Borderline Personality Disorder, and not Anti Social Personality Disorder, if you think you share traits with Radar you might want to read up on it.

In a message dated 8/20/2005 7:44:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dem0n@bigpond.net.au writes:

You're wrong about two things... one, I believe he can be cured and two, I have no empathy for humans (except my daughter). I see empathy as a wasted emotion on people who do not deserve it. I see humans as cattle to be slaughtered. I have a real hate for the human race in general, you can be assured of that. And not only that, I am a very dominant sadist who also desires power and control, so you can also be assured that I am very good at treating humans as nothing more than property to be owned.

Do you seriously think I care about people. I care about my family to a certain degree and love my daughter, but I really don't give a shit about the rest of humanity and why should I? I have been treated like trash for the majority of my life. Why should I bother to care when it's easier to stop caring? It takes away the pain, but it takes away everything else also. That is a sacrifice I have to live with.

When I seek help (I'm seeing another shrink soon) it's for my daughters sake only. I'm doing it so I can be a better person for her and her alone. I don't give a fuck what humanity thinks of me, but I care alot what my little girl thinks of me and that's all that matters, nothing else.

~ Demon Disciple ~

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[STEVIE] Re: Hmmm....double dipping...

2005-08-26T07:19:00.000-07:00

I got double dipped once......ahhh the pleasure.....ahh the pain...........I wonder where that video is.....

From: enchanted@googlegroups.com [mailto:enchanted@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of looneygrl@aol.com
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:03 AM
To: enchanted@googlegroups.com
Subject: [STEVIE] Re: Hmmm....double dipping...

I'm getting double from yahoo, msn, and aol....

Strange....

Must be the servers are bored and need something to do!

Ha!

G
-----Original Message-----
From: Donnie Sanders <DonnieWayne@msn.com>
To: enchanted@googlegroups.com; Looneygrl@aol.com
Sent: Fri, 26 Aug 2005 00:45:15 -0400
Subject: Re: [STEVIE] Hmmm....double dipping...

I have been seeing doubles posts too... LMAOOOOO... and I haven't had any booze!!!

The "MaryJane" jokes were the best... Ever heard of them...???

Donnie Wayne ~

----- Original Message -----

From: Looneygrl@aol.com

To: enchanted@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:37 PM

Subject: [STEVIE] Hmmm....double dipping...

This hasn't happened in a long time...I'm getting double copies of EVERYONE's comments today...

Anyone else seeing this too?

Strange...

And it's nice to see that it's NEVER over with the usual suspects...

HEY GLENN!!!!!!

And how did ol' Helen burn her fingers?

:)

Grace

[STEVIE] Re: Hmmm....double dipping...

2005-08-26T07:03:00.000-07:00

I'm getting double from yahoo, msn, and aol....

Strange....

Must be the servers are bored and need something to do!

Ha!

I have been seeing doubles posts too... LMAOOOOO... and I haven't had any booze!!!

The "MaryJane" jokes were the best... Ever heard of them...???

Donnie Wayne ~

----- Original Message -----

From: Looneygrl@aol.com

To: enchanted@googlegroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:37 PM

Subject: [STEVIE] Hmmm....double dipping...

This hasn't happened in a long time...I'm getting double copies of EVERYONE's comments today...

Anyone else seeing this too?

Strange...

And it's nice to see that it's NEVER over with the usual suspects...

HEY GLENN!!!!!!

And how did ol' Helen burn her fingers?

:)

Grace

Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Questions Answered

2005-08-26T07:02:00.000-07:00

First, you have a wonderful grasp on yourself and great insite. Your'e obviously intelligent and able to discipher your negative from your positive.

You've never been allowed to trust someone. You've never had normal bonding - expect with your child from what you've expressed below. Women who stay and allow thier children to endure a 1/10th of what you endured belong in jail. She shoudl be utterly ashamed of herself and feel no right to tell you how to parent at all. I'm amazed that you still communicate with your mom. I guess family is family, but she still sounds abusive and demoralizing still. You don't need that shit in your life..

Now I'm going to sound rosey. Try to find positive inputs to be around. As lame as it sounds, think well, be well. Take it a day at a time. Try to do something kind each day - even if it's to not kill a bug. Do you have a physical hobby? Sometimes this helps us at lease release tension from ourselves. Writing helps too. When things get hard for me I sometimes look at pictures of my son. It's all about him.

How is your younger brother? How is your relationship with him? How old is your daughter?

Demon <dem0n@bigpond.net.au> wrote:

You said you feel dead inside - what happened to you during your childhood to cause this?

Do you have children? How do you treat your children?

Do you have pets? How do you treat your pets?

Have you tried anger management?

Sharon B.

What has made me to feel dead inside? To be honest, I don't really know. What I do know is that I grew up surrounded by violence and abuse from about the age of 5 to the age of 26. My father commited suicide when I was approximately 18 months old and my brothers father was an abusive man who would verbally and physically abuse my mother in front of my brother and I. I remember when I was 5 years old watching him hit her and my mother screaming at us to get out and race upstairs to a lady we knew up there. I hated him!! Yes, even at that age I felt hatred. When my mother finally left him we went into hiding for awhile and my mother stayed single for awhile after that.

She had to work two jobs just to support us, often not coming home until we were in bed asleep. We spent more time with baby sitters than we did our own mother. I even remember her leaving my brother and I at a playground once while my she went off to work because she couldn't afford a baby sitter. I was 8 years old and my brother was only 6. She didn't come back to get us until just on dusk. I still believe to this day she was hoping someone would take us. Maybe guilt got the better of her and that's why she came back, who knows. I have confronted her over it but all we did was argue, so it was pointless.

Time passed and my mother met another man who once again was the controlling, abusive type and more nights of going to bed terrified than I care to remember. She eventually left him but not soon enough as far as I was concerned. By that stage I was not only starting to hate men, but also my mother for being so fucking weak as to stay with them as long as she did. There is apart of me that still hates her, but for more reasons than just that.

Anyway, more time passed and she met another man with two teenage sons. One of which he seemed to have a hate session towards. Both of whom he would drink rum with and beat up on. I remember us all in the car one night driving somewhere. My mothers partner was in the front seat driving while arguing with his son who was in the passenger seat. He kept hitting him and yelling at him. My mother was in the back seat with my little brother and I and she kept yelling at them to stop or at least stop the car in case we had an accident. My brother and I were terrified. He stopped the car and his son got out and started running down the road. So he started the car again and started chasing him down with it. When he caught up to his son, he stopped the car, got out and they started fighting. My mother began walking over to try and stop them and I kept yelling at her to stay with us (my brother and I) but she wouldn't listen. She ignored me and kept walking to them. I couldn't see anything because it was dark, but I could hear them fighting and my brother and I hugged each other out of fear. I prayed to god they would stop but god never listened. God never fucking listened!!!

My mother eventually left him, but the damage had been done. I HATED HIM and I HATED my bitch weak mother for not leaving him much sooner!! Then of course, not long after, she met my little sisters father. And the bullshit started all over again. Except that she stayed with him for more than 10 years and my brother and I had to endure not only his drunken bullshit with my mother, but also with my brother and I. He just had to find a reason to pick at us when he was drunk. Then my little sister came along and 7 years later, she became the target of his drunken abuse. That was my limit. My brother and I were teenagers by then so we could handle ourselves, but there was no way in hell I was gonna let him take his bullshit out on my little sister also. My mother never did a goddamn thing except provoke his anger by arguing with him while he was drunk. And she never said anything when my little sister became the target. So, I did. All I wanted to do was kill him and we had guns in the house, so the thought came rather quickly. I am proficient with a gun, so all I could think was grab a gun and shoot him in the head, but I never did. He had pointed a gun at our heads one night, so I just wanted to return the favour and make him realise he can't keep treating us like trash. Instead I stood my ground and told him to back the fuck off. We argued and eventually all he did was wander off and go off to sleep on the toilet like he usually did. Like I had several times before, I told my mother to leave and finally, that night she took my advice and we left. But she went back to him for awhile and then left him again for good.

Years passed and I met my daughter's father who in turn became abusive. I had other boyfriends in the past but they were not abusive. Most of the relationships were very short term, except one in which I actually lived with the guy for about 2 years. But the relationship became volitile and my temper at times was hard to control, so we broke up.

Anyway, my daughters' father came into the picture when I was 23 and I discovered soon after that he was a regular drinker who like to verbally abuse me while drunk. He never took his bullshit though. When he gave it to me, I gave it right the fuck back. I always promised myself, that if a man ever hit me... that would be the end of it. Well, I accidently fell pregnant to him after we were together a month and that is when things got worse. I never wanted a kid but he did. Yet his abuse got worse where he would even threaten to throw me down stairs or kick me in the stomach. It would upset me, but I knew he would never do it. He was all talk and no action. I even called his bluff one day and told him to stop talking shit and go ahead and just fucking do it. But he didn't. He stomped off angrily and it actually quietened him down for awhile. Then one night he discovered that his brother's girlfriend was screwing around with other guys and he got the impression (probably from talking to his brother no doubt) that all women aren't to be trusted and that I'm probably cheating on him too. So he came home and started accusing me of having sex with other men while he was out (which I NEVER did and seriously, why would I even want to). This was after my daughter had been born and by then was 10 months old. I was sitting on the bed nursing her when he burst in the door and decided I was a whore. He started yelling at me and punching into my leg and I put my daughter aside on the bed so he wouldn't hurt her. Then he ripped off my undies and I thought he was going to punch me down below, but he stopped and started punching me again, then put his hands around my neck and began strangling me. All I could think was, 'Oh shit, he's trying to kill me'. I was in a position where I could kick the fuck out of him and that's exactly what I did. I kept kicking into him as hard as I could and he eventually stopped. He walked outside after a little while and I grabbed my daughter and just sat there praying to god he wouldn't hurt her also and that he had gone to his brother's house and wouldn't come back. Anyway, I didn't know it at the time, but he had walked to a phone booth and called the cops on himself. Prior to the strangulation I kept telling him everything he wanted to hear and tried to convince him that I loved him and I just wanted us to be a family. I believe that maybe that's why he called the cops on himself... out of guilt.

I stayed in a women's refuge that night with my daughter and left him good and proper the next day. The stupidest thing I did though was feel sorry for him because I had stopped him from seeing his daughter by leaving. So, I allowed him to continue to see her on weekends until her first birthday. On that day he was supposed to bring her a birthday cake and a present, but instead he blew her birthday money at the TAB (horse races) and that started another fight which ended with me punching him in the face and telling him I never, ever wanted to see his face again. He left after that and I left the place where I was living and moved somewhere so he would never find us. And he hasn't found us to this day. In essence, I kidnapped my own child but you can bet your ass I'll do it again and again if it means that he won't ever find us to take his abuse out on her.

So, time has passed and I am still single (although I have had two short relationships since leaving my daughters father that did not last). With the hate I have towards men I have decided I am better off single. Less bullshit to deal with when you're single.

I know you didn't ask to hear my life story, but it at least explains why I feel the way I feel. The anger, the rage, even the feelings of deadness can possibly all be explained due to my upbringing. At least that is what I believe. I know my murder fantasies stem from years of abuse, fear and pent up rage.

As for having children and how I treat them... Yes, as you now know, I have one child and I treat her a hell of a lot better than my mother has treated me. My mother has even told me she feels like she was never mean't to be my mother. She tells me that I should never have had a kid and tells me I should adopt her out. This from a bitch weak ass mother who cared more about the abusive men she was with than her own children. She should fucking talk! I don't abuse my kid. Because I have a such a strong desire to kill, admittedly my daughter has been the target of some of my more 'disturbing thoughts', but I have learn't to block those ones out and don't have them anymore. I still have murder fantasies but she is not involved in those. My mother knows I have murder fantasies because I have been advised in the past to seek psychiatric evaluation, which I did. She even knows I keep knives and once kept a bullet with a victims name on it (because she discovered it one day by accident). But in saying all that, I have never once physically or emotionally hurt my child. My kid is having some behavioural problems of her own and has seen the school councillor, who advised me to take her to a child psychologist, of which I am in the process of doing at present. My daughter is the only person in this world that I truly love. I could never hurt her, not ever! She is all I have left in this world. We are both dominant in nature and we drive each other crazy at times, but she knows I love her and would never hurt her. She trusts me and I would never betray that trust like it has been done to me my whole fucked up life!

Do I have pets? Yes, I have a cat in whom I adore. In the past I could not keep pets because I would get them and not long after, hurt them to the point of killing them occasionally. I have very limited toleranve to loud noise as it gives me headaches and drives me crazy. The puppies would make me angry with their yapping and I would hurt them. I still don't have the patience for puppies and dogs. I have only ever owned four kittens and one of them got run over because I tied it near the car and forgot about it when we went to go out and it got run over. I hit another kitten and would throw it because it kept climing on my cupboards. I ended giving it away. The last one I beat to death for climbing on my cupboards and ripping my curtains. I also kept a small avery containing several budgies of which I forgot to give fresh water to and they began dying of thirst, so I took them out of the cage one by one while they were dying and hit them over the head with a large stick to put them out of their misery. The only animal I have now is the cat and I don't hurt her. My temper isn't as bad as it used to be. But I can tell you, I feel like slitting the throat of the next door neighbours dog when it barks!!

No, I have not tried anger management but it is something I have considered trying. I have alot better control over it now though. The psychiatrist I saw in the past tried to help me but she failed. I told her once that I fantasise about killing her and even snuck my knife in one day just to rock her boat, lol. I loved making that bitch nervous. After 18 months of seeing her I moved away and I have recently been advised by my daughter's psychologist to see another shrink. So, for my daughters' sake I'm seeing another shrink soon. A psychologist this time. See if he can do a better job because the last one didn't do sweet f all.

That should answer your questions.

~ Demon Disciple ~

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] Digest Number 1657

2005-08-26T06:53:00.000-07:00

His cockyness is really what lead them to him. I knew at the biginning it would. Forensics today is absolutly amazing.

Dumb ass!

Does anyone on list write him?

joe pepe <excalibur321112@yahoo.com> wrote:

if i remember correctly it was a letter that he had written on the computer at the church he belonged to. they were able to recover it from the hard drive. guess rader wasnt smart enough to realize that just because he erased it from the documents folder, that it was still on the hard drive. as homer simpson would put it DOH!!!

SSR <hiscooby@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hey there peeps,

I have kind of checking this board out for a couple of weeks and its pretty interesting and right up my alley. Quick question though: Does anyone know what exactly surfaced the identified the BTK killer. What linked him to the crimes so long down the line?

SOS

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[SeRiAL CRiMeS] Re: Dahmer sane(?) & other issues I have with profiler Robert K Ressler

2005-08-26T06:52:00.000-07:00

Diana

--- In serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com, "Sharon B." <srbecker@i...>
wrote:
> Didn't Jeffery admit in open court that he was extremely sick?
> I thought he did. If he did, then it was by his own standards.
>
> Sharon B.
>
> Yes, indeed he was although that's all on arbitrarity anyway.
They
> didn't want him to get any possible advantage by being sent to a
> mental facility instead because the scum simply hated him. Sorry,
I'm
> extremely emotional when it comes to Jeffrey. And I must say I
find
> it very offensive that the person who posted the original message
> calls him "EXTREMELY sick" - by whose standards?! And it makes me
> wonder, if s/he already calls Jeffrey thus what they'd want to
call
> me then?
> People set up categories on what's considered sane and what
isn't,
> but in the end it's just, as I said, arbitrarity. The categories
> could as well be very different. But most people just go along
with
> what they're presented by others and accept it as a law of
nature.
> But it's refreshing to, albeit rarely, come across some that look
a
> bit deeper, so as to point out, for instance, that what
> today's "civilized society" considers sick and outrageous was
> sometimes a normal thing in other cultures - speaking of
cannibalism,
> human sacrifice, and related things. My mom is an ethnologist and
> fortunately open minded to all of this so that I can talk to her
> about it all.
>
> Diana

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Re: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] a creepy new member

2005-08-26T06:49:00.000-07:00

It is great to meet you Diana.I used to work out and lift weights.I lost alot of inches and 45 lbs!I quit and am back to 300.I hate it.I need to bite the bullet so to speak and go back to the gym.

Cindy

-------Original Message-------

From: Diana Daemonique

Date: 08/25/05 06:32:22

To: serial_crimes2@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [SeRiAL CRiMeS] a creepy new member

Hi all, my name is Diana and I just joined here, being a great admirer of serial killers in general, and in particular of my only love Jeffrey Dahmer. In general I admire their courage to act out their dark desires at the risk of a so unspeakably grave price that most of them eventually have to pay, unfortunately. Myself I'm certainly an extremely eccentric but not very secretive person of also very conspicuous appearance (female bodybuilder, mostly mistaken for male crossdresser), my only way of acting out my own desires is my art and it is free for everyone to see/read. For the most part, however, I think I'm a pretty amiable monster... :-) Looking forward to interesting discussions, dark regards, Diana

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